OK, I'm not counting on Vegas doing a perfect sync for me, but how do I lay out the clips in the timeline initially - this is really a very basic question, but I never used multicam!

if they all got the same audio & were ~the same distance away, sync up the audio wave forms. That's what I do. double check with the video.

You just put them on different layers & move them around. nothing else to it. If you have Ultimate S, Excal or Vegas 8, you can use the multicam features when they're synced to put all three up in view at once. If not you'll need to use track motion to shrink them down to fit in the preview window.

When you say "clips" do you mean none of the cameras recorded continuously?

Basic idea would be to put all the clips from say the camera that started at 0:00:00:00 onto say track 1. If there's breaks in the recording space the clips according to the TC so that the clips start at close to actual time.

Then do the camera that started at 1:00:00:00 on track 2, space the clips as above but now you've got a visual reference that you can sync to.

Repeat for last camera.

Now all cameras should be in sync. Adjust ends of clips by time stretching if needed, you'll have to eyeball this.

Bob.

Bob, what you've described is exactly what I want to do.

I just don't understand the Vegas 8 Help/Manual description of the multicam track layout idea. I have put all files/clips into the Project Media bin. I selected them all, and applied Tools->Multicamera->Lay Out Tracks Using Media Timecode - they all go to the same track (and of course geet ovelapsed - bummer).

When I select just the clips from a single camera in the Project Media bin and do the above, they get laid in a single track (of course) and are properly spaced in time.

What am I missing? If I am to put clips from a given camera to a separate track manually, what is the "Lay Out Tracks Using Media Timecode" for?

Just start a new project and drag each camera to a different track. Do not start the multi camera app yet. after the cameras are on different tracks, expand your timeline and roughly align the clips at generally the same location. at this point synch everything to the top track via wave form. Don't move the top track only move the lower two tracks to align waveform with the top. you can actually drag the audio tracks up to lay directly under the top tracks audio so you are right next to it. The wave forms should be marginally different but if you find an abrubt note or event in the show audio wise it should not be very hard to synch. do this all the way through the show. after everything is in synch then highlight the three video tracksand go to tools and select multi camera- then create muti camera track. This will then create a muticamera track of all of the clips in synch. After this go to tools and select muti camera- enable muti camera editing. you should then see a preview screen with all camera angles viewable. start the timeline going and select the track you want to go to with your mouse on the preview screen and switch like a live show. when all is said and done go to tools and unselect the enable multi camera editing. you can then go through and fine tune your edit via sliding the edges back and forth to adjust transitions. A recap.

1. new project.
2. drag each cameras clips to one track creating 3 total tracks.
3. synch bottom two cameras to top camera only adjusting bottom 2
4. Tools/ Create multicamera track after highlighting video tracks
5. tool/ enable mutli camera editing
6 do live switch using mouse over preview screen
7. unselect enable mutli camera editing.
8. fine tune on the timeline.

one note if there are several takes for each shot. after the first clip is done on the top track, hopefully everyone didn't change tapes at the same time and you can synch the top track second clip to the lower track and continue on the path. also don't mess with the align by timecode since you didn't align timecode at the event.

Hope this all helps, if you need more I might have to charge you.

L.T.

"Lay Out Tracks Using Media Timecode" is for genlocked and timecode synced footage, such that the timecode reads exactly the same on each, which appears is not your case. Even so, it doesn't always work if there it TC missing from the first few frames of a tape, so don't worry about it. It is useful, however, for laying out single free run tracks where there are tape changes, if that is your case.

In the Vegas Help, follow the directions for "Synchronizing Events in Multicamera Projects" using the Audio or Video method. I prefer to use the video sync method, then create a multicamera track by selecting the Video tracks and leave the audio tracks alone (I align and mix them down later).

One "Gotcha" -- the original video tracks disappear when you create the multicam track, so I like to copy them to new tracks for future reference and possible use if something gets really screwed up in multicam editing, such as I accidentally delete a take.

Hope this helps you get started.

"Lay Out Tracks Using Media Timecode" is for genlocked and timecode synced footage, such that the timecode reads exactly the same on each, which appears is not your case

This is what I was missing; it doesn't work in my case.

Thanks guys!

Piotr

PS One think I still don't get is - even with the free run time code shifted between the cameras - why doesn't the "Lay Out Tracks Using Media Timecode" put the clips into separate tracks per each camera?

Checkout page 130 of the manual, first point #5

The time of day in your EX clips should get you into the right ballpark if all cameras had time set pretty close.

Bob.

It's 2AM down, my apologies if I don't get this quite right.

Vegas will put all the clips onto the one track. This isn't a problem.

The clips from Cam 1 will be first, then Cam 2 etc. They'll still be in the correct relationship but offset by 1 hour. Easy enough to workout which is which. Select all Cam 2's clips. Drag down to another track and slide back 1 hour. Repeat for Cam 3 sliding back 2 hours.

That'll get all the clips very close, as good as the drift in the camera's clocks. From there it's time to eyeball it, but way easier than starting from scratch depending on your subject matter.

Hope this helps.

Bob.

**PS One think I still don't get is - even with the free run time code shifted between the cameras - why doesn't the "Lay Out Tracks Using Media Timecode" put the clips into separate tracks per each camera?**

1) Drag all the clips from Cam 1 to Track 1
2) Drag all the clips from Cam 2 to Track 2, etc.
3) Select the Video tracks only, and lay out using timecode sync.

In the best of worlds, everything matches up. If it doesn't, as I said, there is something off or missing in the headers. It's not that hard to lay out the tracks from the slave cameras visually to the first track (with "Quantize to Frames" On).

The clips from Cam 1 will be first, then Cam 2 etc. They'll still be in the correct relationship but offset by 1 hour. Easy enough to workout which is which. Select all Cam 2's clips. Drag down to another track and slide back 1 hour. Repeat for Cam 3 sliding back 2 hours.

Bob, this is exactly what I was hoping to be able to do when - having only a faint idea on how Vega Multicam works - I trusted the other "Pro" guy, and agreed to offsetting each camera's TC by 1 hour.

My very basic but important, 2 questions:

1. How do I move a group pf clips across tracks, making sure I don't move them in time (i.e. vertically only, not horizontally0?

2. How do I move them horizontally by exactly 1 hour (or 2 hours, etc), preferably entering this time from keyboard and not just looking at the ruler?

I know these are basic questions, but hope for your answers :)

Piotr

EDIT: OK - disregard; I remembered/found out how to do it.
The rest is just hours of labour :)

Just wanted to report on my proceedings, as this was my first Multicam edit and some of the newbies like me might profit from my experience. I have successfully aligned the three cameras, using peaks in audio (there was a laud bell ring at the castle where recording took place - generally, use some clap)!

What I'm still not sure about is: nowhere in the manual or Help file is it said that the "Layout tracks using timecodee" tool should be putting all selected clips from the media bin to a single track for you to drag to the lower tracks(s) manually. This is what happened here; is it because of the 1 hour offset in the 3 cameras' TC?

On the other hand, the tool did excellent job of spreading all clips in time on the timeline; thanks to that it was enough to synchronize at the beginning, and it got fully synchronized throughout the whole length of almost 1.5 hours! And only one camera (mine) was recording continuously; the other two guys produced tens of clips for me to handle....Lesson: when shooting multicam, try to get long, continuous clips (not always practical, I know).

One question I have before I enter the Multicam Editing mode: only after successful synchronization I discovered the "Quantize to frame" was NOT enabled while Laying out the tracks. Even though it seems perfectly synchronized, should I expected any problems or glitches further down the road because of that? Should I turn it on, and repeat everything?

I (and some others, I guess) will appreciate firm answers to the above question. TIA

Piotr

Regarding QTF. If it's not too much of a pain I'd redo it.

Many of the odd things that people report Vegas doing get blamed on having QTF Off. I don't know if that's really valid or not but if I was you I'd eliminate every possible doubt before getting started. Then if something does get wierd you know for certain what wasn't to blame.

Regarding the issue of putting the clips on tracks. The manual covers this in the paragraph about capturing tapes for multicam (page 129). How this is meant to work with XDCAM I have no idea.

Bob.

Thanks Bob.

I guess what musicvid wrote a couple of posts above:

"1) Drag all the clips from Cam 1 to Track 1

- is the answer: the manual wording is confusing in that you would expect the "Lay Out Tracks Using Media Timecode" tool to put the right clips on their appropriate tracks for you automatically, when in fact you must put them manually on the right tracks, select them, and only then apply the tool!

Again, thanks to all of you, guys.

I've almost never had a "best of all worlds" situation -- there almost always seems to be some TC anomalies right at the beginning of some clips which messes it up, so my "real world" workflow is more like what you are experiencing:

I lay out Cam 1 on Track 1 using TC sync, assuming it has a clean stripe.
The other cams I drag onto their own tracks and line up by eyeball with Quantize "On."
It's really very quick this way, and if the cameras are genlocked everything is perfect. Absolute worst case a camera might be off by 1/2 frame, which is imperceptible unless you are really looking for it, but is the reason I leave my audio for everything but Track 1 ungrouped and sync them manually if I am doing a mix.

So it seems I wasn't that unlucky, after all. Considering I managed to get what seems to be a perfect sync, and that with a recording of a solo guitarist shot from three different angles, with lots of close-ups on his hands doing marvels with the instrument...

BTW, I'm planning to apply very short cross-fades between takes, and longer ones for cut-aways between scenes (like him tuning up the instrument between pieces). Do you think it's adequate, with a "live classical concert" DVD (and possibly BD in near future) in mind as delivery medium?

Or would simple (hard) cuts between the 3 viewing angles be better?

Depends on your taste and the mood you want to create -- the fashion these days seems to be hard cuts between takes with perhaps some dissolves between scenes, but it's your gig.

That should be one advantage of XDCAM, the TC should be rock solid unlike tape.

Be careful using dissolves in multicam unless your cameras are truly genlocked. During the dissolve you can see the same thing in different positions e.g. dancers arms. Possibly the guitarists hands are moving too fast for this to be a problem but keep an eye open for it as it's visually off putting.

Even with cuts you need to be a tad careful, I've found some of the multicam stuff can end up with cuts that look a bit jumpy. Close to wide, wide to close should be OK.

Bob.

**Even with cuts you need to be a tad careful, I've found some of the multicam stuff can end up with cuts that look a bit jumpy. Close to wide, wide to close should be OK.**

So much of that depends on the timing of the cuts. Rather than there being a formula for exactly where to put a take change, there is a natural rhythmic visual and aural flow that suggests the right points. Sometimes just being a frame early or a frame late upsets that rhythm.

I do all my rough cuts in one or two real-time passes in multicamera editing mode, then loop through each cut using Ctrl+Alt+Drag to fine tune the cut point. Then on to the next one, etc. Time consuming, but the result is that the cuts are the most natural and the least intrusive on the viewer that I can make. There are, of course, dramatic points where you want to surprise the viewer with stark cuts, but it's easy to overdo that approach.

Further into my first multi-camera project, I noticed a weird thing which I guess is either a Vegas bug, or not a very good "feature" (I don't think it's my error, as the operation is pretty straight-forward):

After I synced all three cameras (with CAM1 on the uppermost track, CAM2 - below CAM1 and CAM3 - below CAM2), I selected the video tracks and entered Multicamera Editing mode, which of course created a new, multi-take video track (audio I only preserved from the CAM1). As long as there is picture from all 3 cams, the CAM1 is the active take by default (i.e. until I modify anything). However, I have noticed that when say CAM3 picture is missing, it's CAM2 that constitutes active takes! After CAM3 picture returns, CAM1 is on top again... In other words, which camera is active depends on the number/configuration of sources, present in any given moment.

This is very inconvenient during multicamera editing. Is it a bug, or have something go wrong in my project?

No there's nothing wrong, that's the way it works. If it bothers you, inserting empty events in the cam1 track to bridge the gaps in recording before you create the multicam track should do the trick.

In rereading your post I'm a little confused, did you perhaps mix up your camera designations in your description? It's a top layer down kind of thing, if the selected take runs out of video then the next layer [take] down is what shows. What I do is use the contour shuttle to navigate to the first frame of the "unwanted" video and select a different camera [take]. Quick and easy.