Thanks 4eyes. I'm really leaning towards the HC7. Don't want the DVD version for the reasons you stated.
My concern was the out lay of cash for a HD unit and then loosing the benefits by downconverting it to edit it for std DVD's?

I was wondering if I would get the same or similar finished quality by going with a less expensive 3CCD camcorder and wait until the Blue Ray/HD format battle played out or at least became a little more affordable?

Thanks for your input!

I went through a similar decision process (Pana 3ccd SD versus Sony HDV) recently when I had to replace a camcorder which was stolen.

Having owned two Panasonic 3ccd models (an early DX-100 and a MX500/PV953) plus Canon and Sony single CCD models, I eventually went for the HC3.

So far, I'm very pleased - it's got very good picture and sound quality (the CMOS sensor doesn't seem to suffer from the 'bright light' vertical smearing problems which single CCDs can have) and it's very compact. The internal down-conversion to SD seems very good - better than any software HD->SD conversion I've tried.

I've not had any drop-out problems using standard Panasonic DV tapes in HDV mode, and it's now possible to get (cheaper) 3rd party batteries for it.

Downsides ? - the fixed viewfinder (which is probably unusable with the largest battery fitted), it needs a microphone wind muff if you want bass when it's windy (it seems to have an automatic wind-cut filter which can't be disabled - I made a wind muff from fake fur fabric), no manual audio level controls.

Upsides ? - it's probably the best camcorder I've owned :-)

Tony

Tony

Thanks for the input. That's the kind of experience I've been looking for! I've had good luck with the 2 Handycams I have and see no reason not to stick with the brand if there the best choice.

I like all the features of the HC7 and will probably end up going that route.

Thanks again for responding.
Ken

Tony,
Same here, my first HighDef Camcorder. I was using Fuji tapes and had trouble with them.
Ran a tapehead cleaner for about 10sec's on the HC3 and then started using the Sony Premiums. So far no problems using the Sony Premium tapes. Soon I'll be trying the HDV-63 certified for HD Recording. I plan to stay with one brand / sony tapes instead of mixing them.
I think the 3CCD units may not be technically clearer but better true color reproduction.

So far I'm still using the original battery and seems to record for about 110 Minutes. Never ran the battery completely down yet while recording.
I've produced the best videos turning off steadyshot and using a tripod.

Ken, if you do buy a Sony HC7 I'd recommend staying with the Sony Premium(blue color wrapping) tapes. Different makers use different tape lubricants that reduce head wear. I've heard that Sony uses a web lubricant (don't know for sure). Others use a dry lubricant.
Old wives tale is don't mix tapes because you can clog the heads due to the difference in lubricants from one tape to the next when mixed can clog the heads.
Supposedly this was resolved. But mixing tapes on a fairly new Canon Optura unit gave me problems. I don't mix tapes anymore.

Taking 16:9 pictures and displaying back on a PlayStation 3 look great. PS3 also playsback the HD videos. Nice feature with the HC3 is you can pause the video, hit the PHOTO button on the remote and the picture is transferred to the memory card. So taking pictures has tons of possibilities.

I've also used VMS Plat 7 to convert the HD to SD-DVD format. Exporting in 16:9 format elementary streams to import into the DVD burning program or other burning software. The software conversion was excellent. It did take awhile to convert HD to SD, I rendered it overnight. The machine is only a 2.8Ghz HT machine.

I ended up buying the HC7 a couple of weeks ago. So far I am impressed. The output is great, I like the external mic and headphone jacks and the manual controls go on and on but you can create your own "personal menu" that has the often used features. I'm used to the touch screen having owned 2 other Handycams so it doesn't bother me, although I did perchase the extended warranty because of past problems with the screen failing on one of my Handycams. If I had one feature I don't like it's the manual control at the front. It's a little wheel that's hard to control. I've seen other version that have a ring around the lens and I wish this one was that way.

The HC7 will take photos while you're video taping. It will take up to 3 per recording session. That is each time you press start you can take three 4.6m photos. Once you press stop it writes the info the the Sony stick. The 6.1m photos are terrific! The colours and sharpness are certainly better than from my 5.0mp Kodak digital camera.

I've heard the story about staying with one kind of tape and I asked the tech. at our local Sony repair depot a year ago and he said he didn't know that it made a difference. His suggestion was to go with premium brands.

Thanks for your responses!
Ken

Ken,
Referencing the tapes. Sony uses a Wet lubricant on their tapes. Most others use dry lubricants. Do not mix the tapes because the lubricant's don't mix.
I would clean the heads for about 10 seconds and switch to the Sony Premium or the expensive Sony HDV tapes.
I use the Sony Premium's for most footage. Just starting to play around with the expensive Sony HDV tapes.

I would use only Sony tapes (wet lubricant, Sony heads). Talk to another good Sony Tech this time that actually repairs the HDV cams hands on.
Only my opinion of course :)

Good luck with the new cam, I'm jealous, you have external mic inputs.

Sony's HDR-HC3 is a great choice for this program. I just wish I could say this is a good program for Vista. I found my P4 with XP just didn't cut it when it came to the speed needed to crunch all that HD content, but at lease XP did the job. I guess I'm stuck waiting for the latest release comming out later that is supported by Vista. Be ready to take up some memory, I just took a trip and took 2 hrs of video. That file was 23Gb. You'll love the great pictures you'll get on your HD TV, it's even in 9X16 format. So far the editing has been really straight forward (on my XP PC). I just wish I could find some more detailed "how to" info or a more complete training on VMSP. It has a lot of really great features, I just need to learn how they work!. Bottom line - go for the HD. You won't be sorry.

4eyes

Thanks for your advice! I do have a box of the Sony Premium tapes and will stay with them. We have a place locally that puts them on sale ever once and a while. I'll keep a box on hand.

Please let me know if you see any advantage to the HDV tapes. I've got a special project coming up and I want the very best outcome possible. I've seen the tapes but are they really worth the $$?

Ken

Premium "HDV" tapes are (reportedly) manufactured to higher standards to reduce the risk of dropouts. They do not offer improved recording "quality" per se, but should offer improved reliability. (A single dropout has, potentially, much more impact on an HDV-MPEG file, compared to a DV-AVI file, due to the long "group of pictures" between key frames)

So, if you are the sort of person that thinks insurance is worth the $$, then go for the HDV tapes...

John

I'm still recording on my first HDV tape. As the above post states, reliability is probably the key factor here, better tape, better reliability. I would think the frequency response of the tape should also be better.

I have experienced dropouts on tape. A very small glitch results in a corrupted mpeg2 file being captured. When this happens VMS will generate an error when it tries to read that GOP. What I've done to correct this is start at the beginning of the mpeg2 file and press "I" (for IN Point). Save the project (it's going to crash when you get to the bad GOP or frames). Keep advancing in the file until you find the frame that can't be read and causes a hang or crash. Reload the project and go right to the frame thats good just prior to the bad frame(s). Hit the "S" key to Split the video, don't try to play in this area. Use the mouse click on a frame about 1 or 2 seconds past this bad section. Hit the "S" key again to split the file again, this isolates the bad section. Then highlight the bad spot just isolated and hit the delete key. Drag the 2nd section to join the first section and render a new .m2t file.

So far we have captured from the HDV tape using VMS and Mac, no dropouts and the videos look great. I'll probably use theses HDV tapes a lot more than I thought I would. Although I have to admit the premiums work very nice to. I had problems (the dropouts) with other brands and made the mistake of not using the sony tape..

I have a real stupid question. As far as I know there are no burners or blank disks for blu-ray or HDDVD. So if you edit in HD do you always have to convert down to standard def DVD ? Are there ways to view edited high-def videos on your hi-def TV ?

Getting back to the Sony HDV Tapes (expensive ones).
Yes, they are nice, done with 2nd one now. Going to get some more.
MrSpeed wrote:
Many choices out on the market now.
The Sony PlayStation 3 being one, a computer with a HDTV card with component/dvi connectors.
Xbox360 does highdef but I don't know about playing hd-mpeg2 directly (I don't think so), but the PS3 plays them all, including the new avchd disks. JVC & others have HighDefinition Media players available, you don't need to buy a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD burner.