Horizontal line appear around fast moving people HELP

lou4uandme wrote on 1/21/2003, 6:33 PM
Hi everyone,

I transfer my analog camcorder movies with "Dazzle Hollywood DV" via Firewire.
The transfered movie looks great. I then edit my movie then save to MPEG-2.
I use DVD NTSC template. When I view the movie I see very fine horozontal lines around the edges of Arms, Hair, legs. It shows the most when the people are moving fast thru the film. My Project is 720x 480 29.970fps NTSC.

What am I missing??
Should I be setting it up different??

Thanks,
Lou

Comments

seeker wrote on 1/21/2003, 6:59 PM
Lou,

You can see these fine horizontal lines when people are moving fast? It just seems kind of counter-intuitive that you could spot such small flaws on objects that are moving fast.

I got a similar effect on some frame grabs that I printed out on my Epson printer. I became aware that that is what an interlaced frame looks like as a still, and so I used field interpolation to solve the frame grab problem. But for most video you want motion blur for smooth action realism, and those tiny horizontal lines could be just motion blur between succesive interlaced fields.

Otherwise they are probably MPEG artifacts, and you need to look for a better way to do the conversion to MPEG.

-- Seeker --
snicholshms wrote on 1/21/2003, 7:03 PM
Those thin little horizontal lines could be a couple things.
First, rendering directly to MPEG2 might create artifacts that look like what you're describing. Try rendering to an .avi file first and then render to MPEG2.
Second, you just might be seeing the interlace process. As you know, video is a different process than film. Interlaced video will have "fine hairs", especially on fine, delicate or fast moving images.
You might try right clicking on the offending video clip, clicking on "Properties" and then check "reduce interlace flicker" and "Resample" (VV3).
wcoxe1 wrote on 1/21/2003, 7:54 PM
I have had exactly the same thing happen, but not in MPEG. In ordinary DV. NOT on the monitor, ONLY on the TV.

In particular, my daughter, who likes to pretend (3 years old) that she is a kangaroo, leaves these horizontal jazzies all over the place when you look at her bouncing arms.

I cut it down a lot, but not completely, by right clicking on the clip, choose Properties, Reduce Interlace Flicker.

If it is still bad, I add a bit of Gaussian Blur, .001, .001. If still bad, I add a bit more.

Does anyone have a better way to handle these artifacts? I would appreciate comments.
grpoole21 wrote on 1/28/2003, 12:21 AM
I've had the same problem. I finally got a good quality video with no lines by setting the Gaussian Blur to 0.05, and I did not even check the reduce interlace flicker.
HeeHee wrote on 1/28/2003, 12:26 AM
I see this as well , but not with MPEG. I only see it with DV AVI when playing in WMP. Other players, including in Vegas, seam to be fine amd it plays fine when tranferred to tape as well.

I don't really care that this happens since AVI is never my final destination.

mikkie wrote on 1/28/2003, 2:15 PM
Took me forever but I found this page again : http://www.100fps.com/

Came across it the other day & it shows pictures of what I think you're talking about. has a lot of info on de-interlacing as well, if your final destination will be the computer (or similar progressive screen).

Otherwise, make sure the field order matches -> right click on the clip then properties, go to the 2nd tab, & note the field order. Now go to your project's properties and click the open file icon to find a clip on your timeline -> this should set the project to the format of your clip, same field order etc... Save your project under a new name in case. Set up your render as dialog selecting the desired template, but then hitting custom -> change whatever you want, but make sure the field order is the same as your clip and project. You'll still see the interlacing, just not on a TV.

mike
philfort wrote on 1/28/2003, 11:30 PM
If you're playing a file that is interlaced on your computer screen, you'll see the lines. If you play it on a TV monitor, you won't. DV AVI is interlaced by default.

If you want to avoid having the lines when playing back on your computer, you need to render the file non-interlaced (i.e. progressive scan) - when you render, click on the "Custom" button for the file type you have chosen, and search around in the tabs for a choice for "Field order" (not all codecs have a choice), and choose "None (progressive scan)".
wcoxe1 wrote on 1/29/2003, 8:28 AM
The problem with MINE is NOT on the computer. It is primarily on TV. Tried all three ways with field order/progressive, and standard Lower Field First looks best, but not too good in those fast moving segments mentioned in my previous post. The others are worse and worser.
riredale wrote on 1/29/2003, 12:26 PM
I wonder if this is nothing but a field order issue. To find out for sure, get a short clip, and render it out three ways: Lower field first, progressive, and Top field first. Play them on a TV set. I'll bet one looks perfect, one looks poor, and one looks just horrible.
HeeHee wrote on 1/29/2003, 4:27 PM
Phil wrote "If you're playing a file that is interlaced on your computer screen, you'll see the lines. If you play it on a TV monitor, you won't. DV AVI is interlaced by default..."

Thanks for the tip, but like I said, AVI is not my final format for viewing. I will save a finished project out to DV AVI interlaced, because that is how it was shot. I use this avi file to make my final MPEG. The MC codec seams to work better from the single rendered file tan from the timeline with a lot of complicated FX and such.

FWIW - I switch to progressive when I want to capture a still from the timeline then switch back to interlaced. Works awesome to remove the "fur".