How do I use Levels FX Controls?

Bill Wood wrote on 3/19/2009, 11:36 AM
After searching the Vegas Pro80 manual and online resources I can not find out how to use the various Levels controls. Gamma I understand, but the Input Start, Input End, Output Start and Output End have me stumped. I need to go beyond the canned-in settings. (I need to correct a gamma 1.0 source to gamma 2.2)

Is there any documentation for the more obscure Sony Standard Video Effects? Like a PDF that describes in detail how to use the various FX. Anyone have any good links to info like this?

Comments

JackW wrote on 3/19/2009, 11:46 AM
Check the VAAST web site, where I believe either Glenn Chan or Spot (Douglas Spotted Eagle) has a tutorial on levels. Edward Troxel's site may have one as well.

Be sure when you're using Levels that you use the Waveform monitor for reference.

Jack
DavidMcKnight wrote on 3/19/2009, 12:12 PM
This article from EventDV describes the basics of Levels and the waveform monitor. For more detail, absolutely check out the VASST dvd on Color Correction.
fldave wrote on 3/19/2009, 4:27 PM
Jack hit it right on the head! Turn on your Video Scopes, put Levels on your clip, and "see" what it does. Now get to know the other effects this way.

I think getting to know the scopes is more important than anything. Use an existing clip of something you want to mimic if it takes that to see what a good scope looks like!.
GlennChan wrote on 3/19/2009, 6:49 PM
Nice tutorial David!


I've managed to find my own tutorial on levels... it's not on the VASST site because I believe it's undergoing some changes (or I can't find it).
http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/articles/glennchan/levels_in_sony_vegas_part_one.htm



In Vegas, you can check the Filters or FX tab (can't remember what it's called) and see thumbnails of a picture with different FX applied to it.

If you know compositing, you can use the gaussian blur FX and curves onto the alpha channel (you might need to use the channel blend filter to get at the alpha channel from color curves... can't remember) to blur/erode mattes when doing chroma key. If you want to go hardcore with effects. :D
(Or... just ignore what I just said.)
Grazie wrote on 3/20/2009, 1:49 AM
Glenn, every time, EVERY time I read your work I pick-up a new nuance and realisation. Obviously, as your words don't change, it HAS to be me and where I am in my own development.

What I realsie what I am doing is that when I look at the Waveform and adjust Levels I can recognise that AS the Waveform "separates-out" more and MORE detail is revealed. This is plainly a good thing. But here is the real doozy . .. now that I have more detail - it was there ALL the time - I can now go on and make those all important creative/narrative decision about WHAT is going to MAKE this sequence work/clash/enhance/confront/educate/influence the viewer of the piece - less or more.

In another thread, Bob referred to the business of understanding WHAT the camera does, and left the creative wranglings to "others" to rummage through. What I would say here is that ONCE I have "peeled-back" the mist of the digital cloak over my work, I NOW have a chance to then reappraise just WHAT I want from the shot and shot sequence.

I suppose going back to our original poster's question, for me it becomes more about the "why" we employ Levels rather than the "how". The "how" I can grapple with, it is the "why" that:

1] Makes me remember(!)

2] Provides me the greatest creative understanding to assemble work

3] Allows me to aggregate my own Lexicon of digital manipulation (did I just write that! I'll leave it in . . . seesshhh)

Creativity IS a Tool. To some it comes with Lithium batteries included and is handled with ease and grace. Again, with others it has to be worked at. And yet again, with others they haven't even been offered the opportunities to firstly find a way to the toolbox and then secondly been offered the permission to open it.

Glenn and David very VERY fine pages of instruction. It should be required reading on the 3rd day of using Vegas for the first time!

Grazie

farss wrote on 3/20/2009, 2:29 AM
"I can recognise that AS the Waveform "separates-out" more and MORE detail is revealed. This is plainly a good thing."

One small tip if I may.

The waveform monitor shows you ALL the lines that make up the image. As you enlarge the monitor you can see more detail accross the image but not down the image. If you wanted to study the levels of a face in an image you'll have a hard time finding it in the waveform monitor.

This can be solved quite easily. Apply a mask. The Cookie Cutter would probably be good enough. Now the scope will show you just the values for the face. Part of the waveform will be below legal black, you ignore that part as that's the masked out portion of the image.

One more tip.
Vegas doesn't have a spot meter like Photoshop but no matter. Add some Generated Media somewhere on your timeline. Use the eyedropper to select what you want to meter and read off the values from the Gen Media. This is actually better than what you get in PS as the eyedropper lets you select a region and gives you the average values which is pretty handy if what you're trying to meter has a lot of chroma noise.

Bob.
Grazie wrote on 3/20/2009, 6:57 AM
o . k . Bob, got that. But the only thing I was referring to was that I can see more detail in the Waveform, not that I was looking for details in faces, just that any detail that HAD been grouped in the gloom, down there along the baseline, was now being nicely spread/dispersed/scattered across/throughout the waveform.

That's all.

Grazie
farss wrote on 3/20/2009, 7:44 AM
Sure, yes, I knew what you meant. I was just hoping to show how you can get more 'definition' and 'distinction' in what the waveforms were telling you.
In fact even before I started typing this little voice was saying "Grazie's going to think you're telling him how to suck eggs, again."
Which I wasn't at all. Rather what I was saying was for the wider audience but inspired by what you had said but not directly and solely addressed to you. Hope that makes sense.

Bob.
megabit wrote on 3/20/2009, 7:53 AM
"Rather what I was saying was for the wider audience "

- and it was, Bob. Your first tip is easy to grasp on, and very useful. As to the second one - could you you elaborate, please?

I hope it's my English, and not myself being dumb :)

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Grazie wrote on 3/20/2009, 8:28 AM
"Grazie's going to think you're telling him how to suck eggs, again."No, not at all. I was thinking I hadn't clearly got my idea across to you. And no, I had not thought about your idea either. So, no eggs being sucked here, Bob. Sorry to disappoint you.

Grazie
Richard Jones wrote on 3/20/2009, 8:41 AM
This is a fascinating thread and I look forward to reading Bob's elaboration about Tip 2 of his note (i.e. his response to Megabit's request).

In the meantime Bill Wood, who originated this thread, may find the following link helpful (it certainly helped to clarify my thinking):-

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=610967

Richard
farss wrote on 3/20/2009, 2:45 PM
"As to the second one - could you you elaborate, please?"

Say you want to know what color something is in a piece of video. You could grab a frame and use the metering in PS to get the answer.
Another way to do this is to use the eyedropper in any of the media generator tools in Vegas e.g. solid colors. What you do is add the gen media then use the eyedropper to match the gen media to the object. From the gen media you can read the R,G,B values of what you wanted to measure.


To be honest I've not found this particularly useful. Working out why it wasn't useful helped me a lot. The RGB values are not how we perceive color, I think Hue, Saturation and Luminance better define how colors 'look' to us. This is about the point in my understanding where the water is just under my chin, I'm not quite drowning but if I try to explain that in any greater depth I will be out of my depth :)

Bob.