How do I video a Super 8 movie?

Al Min wrote on 2/27/2011, 8:51 PM
I have an old Hannimex Super 8 projector which I bought with the idea of using to convert movie films to DVD. My plan was to project the movie onto a screen and then just video the results using my vid cam on a tripod. Will this work? Someone told me that I'd get the "waggon wheels reverse" effect from the old western movies. Has anyone done this? Will it work?

Comments

johnmeyer wrote on 2/27/2011, 9:20 PM
Your method will work, but it is the least ideal way to transfer film. However, if you want to do it that way, here's a post I made years ago that may help:

Another Super-8 question

You can search, in this forum, on my name and "film transfer" for more info.

As far as the method you are proposing, there used to be a section of filmshooting.com that described the simple telecine method of videotaping the screen as you project the film. That page has disappeared, but I archived it years ago. Here is the relevant quote from that page:

8mm film can be transferred to any format you wish. You have 3 main ways to go. Either rent a professional TeleCine lab (they are expensive!), use a local film/photo lab who will do the job for your, or do it yourself!

If you have a projector that has adjustable speed, change the speed, while watching the monitor, until you get the least flicker. Also, try changing the shutter speed on your camcorder, if you can. Usually the default 1/60 second produces the best results, and higher shutter speeds are not good. however, you sometimes can get better results with slower shutter speeds because it "integrates" the exposure over a longer period of time.

Flicker can also be reduced by using a projector with a shutter that has more blades, with a 5-bladed shutter being preferred. This helps reduce the flicker.

The other problem you'll have is that you'll probably get a hot spot. I don't have any ideas on how to minimize this with your setup.

Oh, I just found another post where I described the process:

DV or HDV?



Al Min wrote on 2/27/2011, 10:08 PM
John, you're brilliant. Many thanks for sharing
JackW wrote on 2/28/2011, 11:07 AM
John's advice is excellent. To it I would add this: don't shoot an image projected on a wall or movie screen as you'll also record all the texture on the screen or wall.

White paper works well, as John suggests; we've found that a sheet of foam-core works extremely well too since it has rigidity and can be propped up easily on an easel or chair.

Jack
bsuratt wrote on 2/28/2011, 1:57 PM
The price of having it done on a Rank Cintel Turbo machine has fallen so dramatically that you would be wasting your time trying to do it yourself if you are interested in real quality transfer.

check here:

http://www.mymovietransfer.com/8mm_Pricing.html

It doesn't get any better than this!
Melachrino wrote on 3/5/2011, 9:46 AM
Home projection for capturing 8mm movies, either regular or Super, is right on. However, take note that not all white paper is usable. Try using a paper that is as matte as possible . That is, as uniform as possible with no so called greasy spots. That is why the suggestion to use smooth white foam is even better.

I transferred all my vintage 8mm movies as described, manual focus, manual aperture, manual exposure, and monitor on a separate TV. Delighted to be able to edit them. (Have you tried editing actual film ??) . And being able to make DVD's which at last coulb be shared with family. Not to mention adding music, sound effects, titles. Etc. A heck of a creative hobby.

On the other hand, some movies were no so good and could have used the proffesional scan system. Your choice.

Bottom line, go ahead and record a projected movie. You will be thrilled with the results for home movies.
johnmeyer wrote on 3/5/2011, 10:11 AM
I didn't mention in my earlier post (although others have in subsequent posts) that filming the output of the projector is NOT the ideal way to do film to video transfer. The ideal way involves scanning each frame of film so that you get exactly one frame of film onto one frame of video (the Cintel machine is the "ultimate" device for doing this, used by Hollywood). You can then edit the resulting video just as you would any progressive video, and when you are finished you add duplicate fields or frames so that the result can be played on a television set that expects a certain number of frames per second. If you have a set that can accept arbitrary fps material, you can skip this final step.

The advantages of a frame-by-frame transfer, such as Cintel or the more prevalent and less-expensive "Workprinter," is that you don't get any blending of frames (caused by the video camera capturing two adjacent film frames into one frame of video), you don't get flicker, and you can capture all the information on the film, right to the edge of the film. Also, you can run restoration software that relies on having discrete frames, and can get improvements like this amazing restoration done by "Videofred"

Improved Avisynth 8mm film restoring script

who has posted extensively about his techniques over at the doom9.org forum. The quality improvement on the basket of fruit in the above clip is pure magic. Make sure to run this in full screen HD to get the full effect.

I've adapted his techniques and used them to restore old film that is in really, really bad shape. Here's an example of one of my restorations:



If you play this full screen 480p, you will obviously see the dirt removal. But, look at how the camera shake and gate weave (jitter) have been removed. Then note the color correction. Next look at the detail enhancement (on the slope in front of the building, for instance, or the poster on the left side of the building). The gamma correction, making it look less contrasty is also important. Look at the boats in the distance on both sides of the water breaker.

So, it is pretty amazing what can be done when you have the discrete, individual frames.

Melachrino wrote on 3/5/2011, 11:44 AM
Of course Johnmeyer is absolutely correct in that capturing an 8mm movie frame by frame is ideal for post editing.

If you do not have access or cannot afford a proffesional film scanner, you can still do a decent job, albeit work intensive, by shooting frame by frame with a digital camera instead of the camcorder. The setup is similar as before. You project the desired sequence frame by frame if your projector allows it ( my Honeywell does) and shoot each picture with a manually set, tripod mounted digital camera. Vegas allows importing picture sequences which can be then edited and converted to a digital movie. Obviously, at that point you can get rid of judder, scratches, correct colorimetry, white balance, the works.

Consider that 8mm movie cameras filmed at around 16 fps, which is 960 frames a minute and about 4800 frames for a 5 minute 8mm roll. Quite a job but very rewarding if you have the patience for best homebrew results. At least you can try with the sectors that are not acceptable with plain camcorder projection capturing method.

But have fun.