liquid, here's an interview that Roger Ebert did with the guy who shot the video you posted.

p.s. it's +7 C. here in Windsor, Ontario and what little snow we had is melting very quickly.

Mike

Actually I thought the video was good, but certainly not deserving of an Oscar or anything like that. I've seen tones of shorts that capture a moment, set to music in this style. No big deal.

Here too winter seemed to be taking off, but over the past week or so it feels more like spring than winter--too bad actually.

Thanks for the suggestions on what products to use to protect my camera.

I wonder, can condensation result in serious problems? Or does it always just go away on its own?

One suggestion: If you have a *case* for your camera (either hard or soft) Put in in the case while still outside, and leave it shut when you take the camcorder inside. That will allow the temp inside the case to rise slowly ... rather than the *instant* rise of a "naked" camcorder brought in from the cold.

Hi Liquid:

I'm my case I shoot in a very hot, humid environment topside, and in a housing under water. The challenge is getting the camera into the housing without getting the dreaded Moisture Present screen, which requires that you set the camera in a climate controlled area and, as mentioned before, pull the DV tape and leave the door open. Then you must wait 60 minutes or more before the camera will come back to life. Meanwhile my guests are in the water and I am missing out on footage of them : (

There are various ways to avoid the Moisture Present condition, but I still get it sometimes. I now put my camera into the housing indoors in an intermediate room between cold air conditioning and blazing humid heat. When I go from a cold area to a warm area I wrap it in a cloth in an effort to provide some insulation against a sudden change. That seems to help.

At first glance the moisture does not appear to cause short term damage, but I bet excessive exposure would cause long term damage.

Regards,

Kimberly

One eye in the camera, one eye looking for polar bears.
JJK

Kimberly

A sudden temperature change can cause condensation on metal parts in the mechanism, which will cause spinning drum to grab tape & wrap it around the drum many times .... massive job to dismantle the mechanism & remove (usually destroyed) tape!

I'm not an expert, really, I'm not, but I have an underwater housing and thought it'd be good to use that while filming my kids skiing. If you jump to 2:20 you'll see where I toss my camera to into the snow after my girl has a wipeout (she's little and crying, I was more concerned about her than the camera at this point) but I knew I had the housing on it to keep it "safe":

Camera in Snow[/link]

Don't forget a polarizer.

Actually I thought the video was good, but certainly not deserving of an Oscar or anything like that. I've seen tones of shorts that capture a moment, set to music in this style. No big deal.

I agree about the Oscar thing. And apparently so does the guy who made the flick: they just interviewed him on the local news here in New York and he kinda implied Roger's evaluation of his work was a little over the top. OTOH, the fact that he appeared on the news indicates he's gonna ride the wave. So good for him - I hope something good comes of it for him.

As for shooting in the snow, I don't - too cold for me. :)

I haven't used any of my video cameras in the snow, but years ago when I used to bring my SLR film camera with me for winter mountaineering.....

winter mountaineering

..... I had read in one of my mountaineering books that when your camera equipment gets back to room temperature, water condenses all over it.. This problem was avoided by putting my SLR camera inside a plastic bag when I got back to the car(room temperature).
The condensation formed inside the plastic bag, instead of on the camera and lenses. I would always carry the camera in the backpack wrapped in a small foam pad so as not to completely freeze up the mechanical parts, and then put it in a plastic bag when it was brought back to a place at room temperature. Simple solution.
That was many years ago. That camera still works today and has never needed repair. This method should work with a video camera as well.

John

Since we address the backpack problem, I share one of my diy things.

I often use a small Dakine bag with first aid , a shovel, a probe and a spare beacon. The problem was to carry my A1 plus some extras like a WA in extreme conditions with condensation avoidance and a bit of protection in case of fall (in fact I often fall while at high speed in deep fresh snow :) ). My backpack is not waterproof at all and after a couple of falls or with snowfalls its material becomes wet.

I did cuts in high density foam and sticked them with neoprene glue. Those cuts just fit my camera and some accessories and the whole is adjusted to one of the compartments of my backpack. When the weather is really bad (or I foresee a fair count of falls), this thing is put into a plastic trash bag also containing few silica gel sachets and then inserted into the backpack.

As of today, I *never* had any condensation issue neither I broke something despite some hard crashes. Of course, I always make sure to let the camera get colder or warmer for one hour approx.


If it can give ideas, some pics:

Silica gell plus some form of cheap air tight container is your best bet.
If you're on a budget, be it money or weight, you don't need to spend up big on cases from Pelican or Storm, the cheap Made In China ones are more than adequate.
For silica we use the 40g "mini" canisters from Hydrosorbent

They can be very easily recycled / recharged and there's very little risk of the silica escaping. Another plus is they have an indicator to tell you when it's time to change them.

Bob.

I wonder just how good silica jell helps. Yes, it does absorb moisture .. but .. as far as I understand it doesn't absorb moisture very quickly. Rather fairly slowly, and over long periods.

Condensation in/on camcorder parts (at least in this discussion) is from a *quick* temperature change when a cold camera is brought in to a warm room.

I'm sure silica jell would not hurt, but I don't think it would help either.

Thanks for all the great answers and suggestions.

A few questions:

LoTN, you say wait at least one hour, maybe two. But what if I can't? What if I have a paid gig that requires me to shoot oudside, and then inside with the option of shooting the other way around if I choose. What I did last time, not by design but it just turned out this way, is I had a wide angle lens on my camera, and when I went indoors, the lens took the condensation hit. When I took if off, and my camera's lens had no condensation on it. I let the lens dry for about 30 min and started using it again.

You also mention to put my camera in a bag with Silica gel bags when I don't use it--do you mean to store it at all times with these gels?

Does the porta brace rain slicker protect against humitidy.

Is humidity a real problem, or just something that happens and has no real consequences once the geardries?

Brighter side, this sounds like the same solution proposed elsewhere of putting my camera in a plastic bag and letting it absorb the condensation.

Kimberly, I wonder what kind of long term damage excessive moisture would cause? And if there's a way to protect agaist it like Silica gels that was suggested. I assume all of us have these issues wether we live in Montreal or Africa--heat changes are a reality, so I would assume that the damage done can't really be that bad otherwise no one's camera would be working today. But maybe that's just wishful thinking .

Dibbkd, I saw your shot of your daughter using your underwater housing, the problem is, I can clearly see the plastic of your underwater housing. That solution woulndn't work for me unless of course I was under water:-)

Craftech, is that you standing on the edge of that gazillioin foot drop of death standing up to your knees in snow? Oh my goodness. Are you nuts? Judging by thoese pictures you're clearly courageous and adventurous anyway. Good for you.
I like your suggestion of putting my camera in a plastic bag, but the only problem is that I would like, and probably need to use it again relatively fast. I can't let it sit there for an hour and dehumidify!

Kimberly, I wonder what kind of long term damage excessive moisture would cause? And if there's a way to protect agaist it like Silica gels that was suggested. I assume all of us have these issues wether we live in Montreal or Africa--heat changes are a reality, so I would assume that the damage done can't really be that bad otherwise no one's camera would be working today. But maybe that's just wishful thinking .

========

Well there is a reason I call it the Dreaded Moisture Present Screen : )

I believe excessive moisture will cause damage. I've been lucky so far . . . or have I?

My first HC-3 went out for repair after about a year in the humid environment. I don't know if moisture was the root cause. My second HC-3 is still hanging in there, but how long 'til I need a repair on that?

I am careful about exposing the cameras to climate changes, rapid or gradual, but sometimes I strike out. For this reason I started prepping the camera/housing in a room with an intermediate climate. That has really helped. Also I've come to accept that I don't shoot topside (sans housing) when it's really humid. I can't afford to lose a camera no matter how many videos I might sell that week!

I use the silica packs in my storage bags, but not in my housing. It has a moisture sensor that illuminates if moisture is getting in. Depending on where I am in a dive, there could be enough time to safely surface and save both camera and housing. A silica pack might mask the problem until it's too late to do anything.

Housings vary on the quality of their ports. When my port is dry and clean, you cannot tell my topside shots are from within the housing. BUT you may find a housing is as costly or costlier than your camera. If you are not a diver you might be better served getting a second camera for dedicated in- or outdoors. Maybe save your best camera for indoors and get a good but less costly model for snow?

Have a look at Ikelite and see if they have anything that fits:

http://ikelite.com/

They are nice people and they are the most flexible in terms of the brands they fit. There are other brands, but Ikelite will give you a good starting point.

"I wonder just how good silica jell helps. Yes, it does absorb moisture .. but .. as far as I understand it doesn't absorb moisture very quickly. Rather fairly slowly, and over long periods."

Indeed it does absorb moisture slowly. At the same time the air inside your camera doesn't move very quickly either, it is reasonably well sealed but not gastight.
The idea is to keep your camera filled with dry air. No moisture in the air, no condensation. Of course it will not stop condensation on the outside of the camera.
The other thing it guards against is condensation inside your flight case. We've had cameras come back with so much water in them there was little puddles in the bottom of the case. Very hot humid air holds a lot of water. Of course as the case is airtight the water cannot evaporate.

Bob.

LoTN, you say wait at least one hour, maybe two. But what if I can't? What if I have a paid gig that requires me to shoot oudside, and then inside with the option of shooting the other way around if I choose. What I did last time, not by design but it just turned out this way, is I had a wide angle lens on my camera, and when I went indoors, the lens took the condensation hit. When I took if off, and my camera's lens had no condensation on it. I let the lens dry for about 30 min and started using it again.

Well, I never had to deal with such short time between cold outdoor and warm indoor. I have no idea how it would work but maybe just before going outdoor adding a neutral filter on you optics could limit the temperature drop of the glass and removing it when going indoor may limit the condensation if the glass temperature is not too cold. I never tested this, maybe someone else could provide valuable inputs on this.

You also mention to put my camera in a bag with Silica gel bags when I don't use it--do you mean to store it at all times with these gels?

No, I dont use them when my camera is sleeping at home. They become useful when shooting in areas like the one shown in craftech's picture. When not shooting, my backpack contains the camera and silica gel.

The rain slicker can't do anything against condensation. But for rain or snowfall mine proved to be efficient.

Beyond some limit, humidity can be a real problem with tape transport eating the cassette film or worse, electronics going into weirdness. It can end in gear premature end of life. This is why I unplug the battery when back from our cold mountain crests (Alps).

I like your suggestion of putting my camera in a plastic bag, but the only problem is that I would like, and probably need to use it again relatively fast. I can't let it sit there for an hour and dehumidify!

I would protect the camera body in order to avoid, as far as possible, temperature variations and use some neutral filter trick for the lens.

Note about silica gel: it can be "regenerated" very quickly with a microwave oven.

Think of it this way -- When outside in the cold the camera itself (including the lens) gets cold, but the amount of humidity in the air is negligible. If you put the camera in a sealed plastic bag before going inside the low humidity air that's inside the bag will not produce a condensation problem. However, you can't open the bag until the camera has warmed up to room temperature.
On the other hand, if you need to shoot inside immediately, condensation will form on the lens and other parts of the camera as long as the camera is much cooler than the surrounding air. The more humid it is inside, the bigger the problem.
The issue here is caused by temperature/humidity DIFFERENCES.
If you know you are going to be going back and forth between hot and cold, there is one thing you can try -- keep the camera warm! Using heater packs inside a protective 'camera coat' may be able to keep the camera body warm enough to minimize the temperature difference, amd thus the condensation as well. When using this methodology also keep the camera on -- the internal electronics will tend to generate a little heat as well. The hardest thing to do is keep the lens warm, since its front element is exposed directly to the elements. A filter may help somewhat in this respect. Also think about using some battery powered socks or other heater devices.
Of course the best system is to just have two cameras -- keep one inside and the other outside -- then no worries and no waiting!

What about using chemical or battery powered warmer to keep the camera warm in an enclosure this way the camera will already be at or close to room temp to avoid condensation?

Taking a cold camera into a warm environment will create a relatively minor problem. You will get surface condensation when the warm moisture laden air contacts the cold surfaces of the camera. Mostly the warm air will take some time to reach the vital, cold, components of the camera and by the time it does those surfaces will have warmed up. Certainly if you were to take your cold camera into a warm humid room and immediately flip open the tape compartment you would get condensation on the heads and no doubt also trip the condensation alarm in the camera. That's pretty easily avoided, don't open the door and keep the camera on if possible.

The graph on the right side of this page on Dew Point shows the nature of the problem.
Typical warm air inside say a ski lodge holds quite a lot of water. At temperatures around freezing almost none. So if your camera has been outside and it has had enough time to acclimatise i.e. the air inside and outside the body is the same, it will have almost no water inside it.

Conversely if the camera has been inside the ski lodge and has had time to acclimatise it will have water in the air inside the camera. Chill the camera and the air inside it and it will rain inside your camera. If that happens inside your lens you can have a very serious problem. Repeat this process enough times and you can literally have water sloshing around the inside of your camera. A puddle of water evaporates slower then water condenses. A few seconds of rain can create a puddle, watch how long it takes for it to evaporate. Water + electrolyte + electricity = bad things happen. There's examples of people who have had this problem with large repair bills on the web. One photo of a damaged PCB clearly shows a high tide mark, there must have been over 10cc of water inside the camera.

I'll say this again. Your best stratergy to avoid this is an air tight case with silica inside it. If you have open cell foam in there that too will help as it will retain the dried air when you open the case.
For this stratergy to work the silica gell needs maintainance, the case should be kept closed as much as possible and the camera kept in there when not in use.

Bob.