Comments

PeterDuke wrote on 4/15/2014, 7:07 PM
Can anybody confirm or deny that they also see this effect? Have I explained myself sufficiently?

I wished to confirm that the markers had been updated correctly after editing the source files, so I zoomed in to see how they lined up with the frames. I could step on a frame at a time (1/25 of a second step) but the frame numbers were wrong (approximately 30 in one second).
videoITguy wrote on 4/15/2014, 7:57 PM
Here in NTSC land I use DVDAPro Ver. 5.0b - nothing greater - and the timeline is responsive to changes of the project properties - so say I change from 23.967 to 60i as a project parameter - the timeline scale appropriately changes.

Be careful that you are REALLY setting the correct project properties at the outset when creating a new project and not changing your mind afterwards with import of dissimilar media.
PeterDuke wrote on 4/15/2014, 8:05 PM
How about if you load in a 50i video with matching project? Does the frame indication match or is it 29.97 frames per second?

If you zoom in and step along one frame at a time, does the frame indication go from 0 to 24 (25 steps per second) for a 50i project, or 0 to 29 with a jump here and there (25 steps per second)?
videoITguy wrote on 4/15/2014, 8:33 PM
I don't have any source for 50i video that would be correctly rendered at 50i (in project properties) from the Vegas timeline for export as a true and certain elementary videostream of 50i that hasn't been re-mastered.

What I want to make sure you understand about this test, is I only want to see that a 50i source video stream that has been rendered correctly.

Just rendering a 50i from anything is not a sufficient test in my opinion.
PeterDuke wrote on 4/15/2014, 9:12 PM
Agreed. I am testing 50i source in 50i project.

If you don't have any 50i source, you could render out a clip of say 60i as 50i in Vegas and use that, but it is a bit much to ask you to go to that trouble.
videoITguy wrote on 4/15/2014, 9:33 PM
PeterDuke, that was the point my earlier post, 60i to 50i does not actually create a valid test for what I believe you are expecting.

Once again, I assure you most certainly that I see the timeline scale change relative to the project properties. What this means is that I set a mark to be at 4 min runtime - then the composition of the video will show relatively how much of the file at a given fps will be needed to reach that 4min mark. This is naturally what you would expect. Slower fps means the scale is shortened because there are a fewer number of frames shown for an overall 4minute period of time.
PeterDuke wrote on 4/15/2014, 10:47 PM
If you create a 50i video from say 60i source, the created frames will show some blurring or jumps, depending on the options selected at the time of rendering. However I am not concerned with the quality of the frames, only with the frame numbers.

For instance, with a 50i project and a 50i video, if I expand the timeline in DVDA so that you can see the individual frame numbers and start from the beginning of the clip, with the display set to "time and frames", as you step along one frame at a time, the counter to the left of the timeline shows:

frame 1 - 00:00:00.00
frame 2 - 00:00:00.01
frame 3 - 00:00:00.02
frame 4 - 00:00:00.04
frame 5 - 00:00:00.05
frame 6 - 00:00:00.06
frame 7 - 00:00:00.07
frame 8 - 00:00:00.08
frame 9 - 00:00:00.10
frame 10 - 00:00:00.11
frame 11 - 00:00:00.12
frame 12 - 00:00:00.13
frame 13 - 00:00:00.14
frame 14 - 00:00:00.16
frame 15 - 00:00:00.17
frame 16 - 00:00:00.18
frame 17 - 00:00:00.19
frame 18 - 00:00:00.20
frame 19 - 00:00:00.22
frame 20 - 00:00:00.23
frame 21 - 00:00:00.24
frame 22 - 00:00:00.25
frame 23 - 00:00:00.26
frame 24 - 00:00:00.28
frame 25 - 00:00:00.29
frame 26 - 00:00:01.00
frame 27 - 00:00:00:01
etc.

As you step along, the cursor jumps one frame at a time, but it does not line up with the labels above the timeline, because they are based on 29.97 frames per second.

If you get the same behaviour with a clip converted to 50i from some other source, I think that would confirm that there is a bug in DVDA.
videoITguy wrote on 4/15/2014, 11:14 PM
All of my prior comments in my posts above apply and I see no problem with the expectations of the DVDAPro timeline acting appropriately per the setting of the project. Indeed, I understand you may have a different expectation.
However, as far as I can tell the DVDAPro application works as it was meant to.
PeterDuke wrote on 4/15/2014, 11:27 PM
But have you tried a 50i project? If not, you can't say for sure whether it works properly or not. I accept that DVDA works OK for you if you never use 50i projects.

Do you have some 24p source? It also shows as ca. 30fps for me. I will just try again to confirm it (Blu-ray settings).
videoITguy wrote on 4/15/2014, 11:36 PM
Just start with an empty project, examine the timeline of a menu, change the timeline aspect to whatever, then change the properties of the project between a pal setting and an NTSC setting - that is enough to do an exam without inviting imported video variables.
PeterDuke wrote on 4/15/2014, 11:46 PM
Yes, I confirm the same effect. Since there are ca. 24 frames per second (23.976) the behaviour is not quite the same because there is one less frame in one second. I get (frame nos. only):

Actual - indicated
1 - 0
2 - 1
3 - 2
4 - 4
5 - 5
6 - 6
7 - 7
8 - 9
9 - 10
10 - 11
11 - 12
12 - 14
13 - 15
14 - 16
15 - 17
16 - 19
17 - 20
18 - 21
19 - 22
20 - 24
21 - 25
22 - 26
23 - 27
24 - 29
25 - 0
etc.

What do you get?
PeterDuke wrote on 4/15/2014, 11:52 PM
Sorry, you replied while I was replying. I am not sure that I understand what you are saying, but I will give it a go.

You said earlier that you had some 23.976 video. Can you create a 23.976 project, load in the video and report whether the reported frame numbers are as I described?

Note that this is purely a display bug, as far as I know. The created BD or DVD seems to be perfect.
PeterDuke wrote on 4/16/2014, 12:10 AM
I created a default SD 4:3 NTSC project. The menu is 500 ms. As I step along one frame at a time, the counter goes from 0 to 15 with no gaps as expected.

I changed the project properties to PAL and the frame rate automatically changed to 25. As I step along one frame at a time, the frame number in the counter is as I previously reported except that the last frame is 15 and not 16 and the cursor only steps half a frame, as expected (12.5 frames in 0.5 secs).

Do you get this?
videoITguy wrote on 4/16/2014, 6:03 AM
someone else chime in?