My point is that 3D adds marketing flash with a very small investment on SCS's part. We have to buy the camera!

Ralph

Ralph, I like the way you are untangling this particular knot. And going further, your point is?

Grazie

"Am I completely off the mark."

Yes, kind of.
The way you describe of recording each eye as a field is one way that's used and not a very good one. One downside is you get only half the vertical resolution.

Adding 3D might sound really whiz-bang however full 3D support involves more than just being able to see and edit it. You need tools to adjust the various parameters that affect how the 3D image sits in space plus color grading can involve new challenges as each eye sees through a different lens. Those two lenses may not be exactly identical and correction may need to be made for that.

At a consummer level all of the above could be ignored of course but that approach could cause 3D to be relegated once again to side show alley.

Now what I would like is a 3D text generator. I love watching the titles and credits in 3D.

Bob.

Now what I would like is a 3D text generator. I love watching the titles and credits in 3D.

afternoon there bob......


Now what I would like is a 2D text generator that was simply integrated and worked without learning a whole new vocabulary.....

"Now what I would like is a 2D text generator that was simply integrated and worked without learning a whole new vocabulary..... "

And might I add "that simply worked" (referring to the credit scroll).

You guys have not even scratched the surface of 3D compexity in production and editing.

There is absolutely no way this Vegas 10 release will produce and burn 3D productions at this time.

Start reading about the cameras and file system 3D uses. It's double AVCHD. People complain about AVCHD. Wait until they try to edit double AVCHD. Or color correct it.

"There is absolutely no way this Vegas 10 release will produce and burn 3D productions at this time."

That's pretty bold statement. Have you any evidence to substantiate that claim?

Looking at the photo of the Panasonic 3D Camera, it appears to have a dual supplementary set of lenses going to a single imager, 3D flat screens work fine for both 3D and 2D. Theaters rely on the older polarized glasses system usually and a dual camera system to shoot.

You are right Bob, 3D titling is really cool, that would take some serious code writing, as would real 3D transitions. Telling stories though, really gets along pretty well with only cuts and dissolves.

With sequencial images, electronic shutter glasses, and a 3D monitor, you could edit much the same as now.

Ralph

50 or 60/720p would work pretty well, but 1080p would need a higher frame rate, wouldn't it?

Ralph

SCS released one of the first real 3D titlers at NAB. There are many flavors of 3D delivery and I believe the press release mentioned that Vegas will support everything from side by side to anaglyph.

Yes your system must be capable of editing more than one stream of video at a time. Most folks who are involved in serious 3D production have such machines. Whether or not you know it, Sony runs a 3D academy for th top directors and DP's to learn the basics of proper 3D production. They also have groups of 3D broadcast gear out with some Universities for football cover so that lessons can be learned about how to best use 3D in real life situations.

This 3D upgrade is not a hook for wedding photogs. Vegas has stepped into a market where the real money has been demanding a comprehensive tool. You may not use it, but it will introduce Vegas into a new circle professionally that is important.

KK

That's pretty bold statement. Have you any evidence to substantiate that claim?

Vegas 4 supported higher then HD & no way to deliver to customers. DVDA 5 (VP8) finally got BD support. 4 versions later.

Not saying it will be the case now, just saying that's a good example of one side of the tech out pacing the other.

This 3D upgrade is not a hook for wedding photogs. Vegas has stepped into a market where the real money has been demanding a comprehensive tool. You may not use it, but it will introduce Vegas into a new circle professionally that is important.

While I hope it's true, like I said above: V4 had HD+ & scopes, swarms of people didn't drop the competition for that. Vegas 9 (or 8?) supported native Red files before any one else, swarms of people didn't pick it up either. Vegas has a lot of first but that doesn't mean people will switch to it. I don't have an iPod touch even though it's better in every respect compared to my small 2gb mp3 player.

"Vegas 4 supported higher then HD..."

... higher than HD...

But that was not a selling point at the time, either.

"Vegas Pro 10 provides the ability to import, adjust, edit, preview, and output stereoscopic 3D media..."

Granted, it does not define what the "3D media output" is, but they are plainly stating that it will be capable of outputting 3D media in some form.

Vegas 4 supported high res mpeg-2's, 1's, WMV, MOV & AVI's.

There's nothing saying VP10 doesn't have an "upload to youtube" button & THAT is the delivery they're talking about.

It DOES say "output stereoscopic 3D media — all using industry standard professional delivery formats" but the DVDA section says nothing about 3D BD/DVD setups.

Isn't that what I just said...?

It's not very fancy, but I was making 3D video in Vegas 6 or 7:

http://dibbvids.com/vegas/sony-vegas-3d-video/Sony Vegas 3D Video[/link]

How does 3D work? Hmmmm, someone needs to do a bit of reading.

"How does 3D work? Hmmmm, someone needs to do a bit of reading. "

Well I just learned that anaglyph is the fancy name for the red/green method and I remember using crosspolarized glasses in the theater sixty years ago.

Current video monitors use an electronic shutter type of glasses synchronized by an infrared signal. That would indicate an alternating frame system. I assumed, incorrectly I gather , that someone would shout nay if that were not the case.

Ralph

OK.
http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/TV/3D/Theater/Dolby 3D[/link]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_television3D TV[/link]

Okay, so video 3D is an alternating frame system as I thought. If you were shooting with your brand new $21K Panasonic 3D camera at a 24p frame rate, it would a dual stream of alternating left/right images i.e. 48p. You would transfer these to your hard drive and drag them to the timeline. If you only used cuts and dissolves, you could use VP9 maybe. 3D titling and transitions would be another matter. You would need a 48p 3d template for blueray output, the key thing being a flag on each frame so that the TV can synchronize your glasses. Your bit rate might need to be raised to keep the image quality up. Your TV (240hrz.) would show your left eye image five times then the right eye image five times. Alternatively, with a couple of frame stores, the TV could feed the ten alternating images to the screen of each L/R pair. I have used 48p because I think that 24p might cause discomfort. That would only be 12 new images per second to each eye.

Ralph

That's how it works. Ralph, you seem to be proposing something that already exists. As with 2D you have to adhere to technical standards and they have been established. But probably I haven't understood. If you want to be able use Vegas to edit 3D, then that is flagged for Vegas Pro 10. Stereo manipulation and colour control has been available for some time in Cineform's FirstLight.

[quote]There is absolutely no way this Vegas 10 release will produce and burn 3D productions at this time.

Wow...quite a strong statement, and entirely incorrect.
As I stand here at IBC (not for Sony) showing exactly this.

There are multiple types of authoring, burning, displaying 3D. Vegas supports the majority of them, but not all of them.
However...vegas does ingest, edit, output 3D.
Your MACHINE may struggle with it. My MacBookPro does not.
I'm playing back dual streams of AVC and AVCHD at the same time (sourced from NXCAM and GoPro's).
I'm experimenting with two EX1's as well. They decode more easily, of course.

Just for clarification;
You can put anaglyphic on a BD disc, but it's not supported as 3D.
The BD spec only allows for DualStream/MVC.

Other formats such as checkerboard, LA, side x side, etc can also be put on a BD, and 3D capable displays will properly decode/display as frame sequential.
there are many paths to the kingdom of 3D. Vegas supports most of them.
Spent the morning in an FCP tutorial session on 3D, and I found myself very appreciative of how Vegas works with these files (and displays them externally as well).
The system Sony is running is using BMD card, REAL D glasses, and is getting a lot of attention based on the few times I ventured into the Sony booth.