Comments

AdamB wrote on 4/9/2002, 10:38 PM
So far I've only encoded some cardtoons. Looks good so far. I'm using the DVD template that is provided by Mainconcept.
PeterMac wrote on 4/10/2002, 11:19 AM
A very good - and pertinent - question. I'll tell you why. Up to now I've been sounding off about how Vegas's encoder (MainConcept) lagged behind others in the field, such as CinemaCraft and Tmpgenc.
I'd based all this loud-mouthing on what could be seen on a *computer* screen, preferably with the nose pressed flat against the glass. Then I got a DVD burner...

CinemaCraft somehow contrived to get the sound lagging 7 frames behind the action - just enough to destroy your equanimity completely. Since it was starting with exactly the same AVI that all the others were using and there seems to be no means of configuring the fault away, out went CinemaCraft. (I hadn't spotted this before because, until now, I'd not paid any real attention to sync, being more bothered about visual quality).

Tmpgenc, while not losing sync, and appearing on a computer at any rate to be first class, shows a 'flickery' sort of effect over busy scenes - imagine panning past some trees in leaf. It's not the gross flickeriness you'd see if you had the field order wrong, it's more like the encoder has rapidly altered the contrast every half dozen frames or so. It's, er, quite detrimental to your viewing pleasure <g>

The LSX encoder just won't work - period. It creates a pretty multi-coloured mosaic, and if you're into pretty mosaics, it does a damn fine job too. But your movie is out the window. (Interestingly, LSX's support tells me that what I need to fix this problem is to install the MainConcept CODEC..)

The Vegas MPEG2 encoder, on the other hand, is beautiful. I was under the impression that only bug fixes had been made between versions 3 and 3a, but it looks like some tweaking has gone on too. One thing I did find necessary though - for my own pernickety tastes - was to increase the data rates from the defaults. I actually use VBR with Max=9.8Mbits; Avg=8Mbits and Min=192Kbits(default). This is on a PAL system, widescreen with digital picture processing. The result is minimal blockiness - none visible at all from quite close to the screen - and lovely gradations of tone with ample sharpness. It's more than watchable, it's a pleasure to view. The DVDs were burnt on a Pioneer A04 and played back on a Pioneer 545 through the said Sony Wega widescreen using RGB connections.

I'm impressed - and freely admit that my earlier conclusions were wrong when faced with real world conditions. The encoder is reasonably speedy too - an advantage. While it's not as quick as CinemaCraft, it is several times faster than Tmpgenc in its Deep Thought mode.

The Vegas/MainConcept encoder is not perfect; you can still see the odd artefact here and there, but for me at least it's right at the top of the pile.

-Pete

(Dave, when is the Tweakers' and Meddlers' manual going to see the light of day? There're loads of interesting settings in there that I daren't mess with in case I get warped onto Altair IV)
kkolbo wrote on 4/10/2002, 8:14 PM
I too, was ignoring the MC encoder until I ran extensive tests side by side and I learn some of the terms they were using for settings. As a long time TMPGEnc supporter, the best reccommendation I can give you is that for MPEG-2 I have removed TMPGenc from my hard drive and do all my encoding in VV using the MC Encoder.
blatteur wrote on 5/30/2002, 12:17 AM
Pete,

Which software you recommand to write the DVD after creating the mpg file with vv3 ?

Thanks for your advice,
Benoit.
PeterMac wrote on 5/30/2002, 5:17 AM
For a complete tyro, who just wants to get something on the DVD and is happy to do all this using templates, ULead's DVD MovieFactory. The program is cheap, easy to use and does pretty well what it says on the box.

If you want a little more sophistication - the button here and not there, kind of thing - its big brother DVD Workshop may be called for. It costs more and I'm not sure if it's worth the extra.

There's a third option starting to get good reviews, although I have no experience of it, and that's Dazzle's DVD Complete (I think that's its proper name). As I say, I have no experience of this product, though I did have a fleeting encounter with their Hollywood A/D converter, and that wasn't an experience I'm anxious to repeat.

I'd steer clear of Sonic** stuff like MyDVD.

-Pete

**That's not 'our' Sonic Foundry, by the way. If ever there was a more unfortunate similarity...
BillyBoy wrote on 5/30/2002, 11:35 AM
Let me answer your question this way. You CAN'T compare results of viewing rendered files on a computer monitor with how it "looks" on a TV when played back through a set top DVD player.

First decide WHAT is your ultimate playback medium going to be? If you are making videos that you're either going to print to tape and play back through your camera or maybe burn a DVD or VCD, SVCD or XVCD disc, each of those methods, to get the best results, requires selecting different rendering methods. There's nothing stopping you from making seperate renders if you want to do both from the same source files. In fact I do that all the time! Do NOT make the mistake of making a one render fits all choice. Just like with one size fits all clothing, the results are usually very disapointing. <wink>

Assuming your goal is to watch off a TV, do check out the article I posted awhile back on how to properly calibrate your TV's black levels, etc.. Only takes a few minutes and can make a BIG difference. So can using S-video as opposed to taking the easy way out by connecting the yellow RCA plug from your DVD player to your TV. If your equipments supports it, take the time to set up the S-video connection. Again, you'll likely see a measurable boost in picture quality.

Be realistic in your expectations. I've seen people say something to the effect, dang nab it, I got this 60 inch TV and my VCD I burned looks like crap. Well duh... of course it can. Problem: LOW BITRATE. A SVCD effort or XVCD will be better, (somewhat high bitrate) but seeing some artifacts or a softer overall images is the trade off of needing the fill that giant size TV screen. Others say they see artifacts if they stand 6 inches or closer from the TV screen. Duh again. Go back to your sofa.

A lot of such flaws can be hidden with careful filtering. I've posted dozens of replies on what I done that makes most go away. However... now that I have a DVD burner and can use higher bitrates, such problems for all practical purposes are just a memory.

Hint: If you want to get a GOOD copy of your video and play it off your computer I posted a test I did about a year ago in the Video Factory forum where I did a RM render with a very HIGH bitrate, 1 Mbps, even 3 Mbps. While such settings are inpractical for distributing meda off a web page, for playing back off your PC the results can be very good. Better then any other format in my opinion because you get the benefit of a high bitrate while still getting excellent file compression. If I remember correctly I got about 35 minutes playing time in about 700MB.



bakerja wrote on 5/30/2002, 12:26 PM
I followed Petermac's recommendation and tried Ulead's DVD MovieFactory and have not been disappointed. The quality is great and the software is easy to use. I really only have one criticism of the product. Changing the video frame of the thumbnails is not very friendly. While you do have some control, I would like to be able to use any frame of video that is contained in the clip.

Thanks,
JAB
BillyBoy wrote on 5/30/2002, 3:06 PM
I use DVD Movie Factory too and have raved about it here, too much probably. <wink>

You can't use "any" frame. You should be able to pick any I-frame as the source for your thumbnail. While building your sub menu you can pick based on the timecode displayed. Haven't tried it myself yet.

I don't want to stop a render I've got going now, anybody know if you can just display I-frames in Vegas Video and if you've used DVD Movie Fractory does its timecode counter match up exactly with Vegas?