The Vegas name can still work and could be pretty awesome, but they need to keep the same "cityname" naming scheme throughout all of the products. Like Autodesk has Flame and Inferno.

How about this:

"Vegas" would be the name of the NLE (which needs an overhaul)
"Memphis" would naturally be the audio app
"Tokyo" titling program
"Moscow" compression/conversion app
"Paris" compositing/effects app
"Santiago" DVD authoring app

There would still need to be one name they all fit under and "Sony Media Software" is about the quickest way to quiet a room I can think of.

The interface color can be easily changed; there are more than a dozen free interface color changes on the VASST site.
bundles...they're available.

Name...agreed, but it's now 9 years old. hard to re-buy that kind of branding.

The interface color can be easily changed; there are more than a dozen free interface color changes on the VASST site.

I don't think that is entirely true. It is true that Vegas supports XP themes, but those themes offer a limited ability to change the colors. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't believe you can create a windows theme that will force ALL text in the Vegas UI to be light against darker backgrounds. For example, the Vegas explorer window background color cannot be adjusted to be anything other than white. Now please tell/show me I'm wrong because I've tried and tried to do it. I've even got the Window Blinds package, and that doesn't do it either (In fact Vegas doesn't get along very well with Window Blinds [grrrr!].

My Vegas Explorer background is grey.

There are other NLEs out there with pretty much all the features you've mentioned and they also do not compete with Avoid. Not one of the things that you've mentioned is what holds Vegas back from going head to head with Avid.

Bob.

Why does Vegas have to "compete" with Avid?

Different tools do different things. If the Avid tool handles the needs of your job and is more aesthetically pleasing to you than the Vegas tool -- go for it!

Jack

well, certainly Vegas is not going to cut film, I mean actual film, but, there is no reason that vegas can't compete with some of the Avid systems. The reason Avid is going to be percieved as "Better than vegas" is because of name recognition.

Changing names is a bad idea, no question about it, the name may not make sense, but almost 10 years, and now people recognizing the name finally means that changing it now would be a bad move to make. Even unsubstantiated negative impressions associated with the name of the product means name recognition. Unsubstantiated impressions can be undone with very little effort.

Dave

Here's a good example of what does keep Avid at the top.

Guy walks in our door looking rather frantic. His Avid system has stopped capturing from tape. He wants to try one of our decks in case it's his deck that's the problem. Well new deck doesn't fix his problem so he goes off to the local Avid dealer. Back in under 30 minutes.

Seems his Mojo has lost it's mojo so they given him a replacement while his gets fixed. Hooks his system up to our deck and he's flying. He bought the entire kit from this one place, laptop, Mojo and deck.
Thing is being able to buy a turnkey edit system is very attractive to many. They just want to edit, they don't want to futz around with mobos, disks and RAM. When it stops working for whatever reason they just want it fixed, regardless of which bit is the problem.
This is something that Vegas needs, firstly Sony should spec reference systems. Secondly they need partners who'll supply turnkey systems. Sony and their dealers do have these kinds of things but guess which NLE's they sell. You guessed it, Avid.

Bob.

Since I always enjoy pi**ing in the wind...

All due respect to DSE but I'm not sure how much equity is in the Vegas brand since few video professionals know what it is. (Not to say that those of us who know and love Vegas are less than professional.) If this is the result of a 9 year branding effort, maybe they should take another look. If the name changed there would be little or no disturbance in the force, IMO.

jkrepner offers that Sony Media Software would be an excellent brand umbrella and I agree. Here's another thought... Beef up Vegas and change the name to Xpri. Current Xpri product (while not bad) is a high-end Avid wannabe with not much market penetration. (Yeah yeah, I know, Sony Bdcst is separate from Sony Media but companies re-org all the time. So what?) Each product has attributes the other could use: Vegas has the nifty interface, Xpri has sensible media management, to name but two. Sony could develop various product levels ala Avid or a tightly integrated suite like FCP or PP. (I'd prefer the latter.)

JackW asks, why Vegas has to compete with Avid? Same reason it has to compete with FCP or PP: These are products a lot of people are using - the standards of the industry, so to speak. It's not so much about different tools since all NLE's are basically the same idea executed with minor differences. If Vegas wants to be considered "professional" (Vegas' splashscreen says, "Professional HD Video and Audio Production," on every launch) it must take some steps it seems to be resisting.

Vegas takes heat for it's "non-standard" interface. IMO that's BS but, hell, if it will sell more units give 'em a two-monitor option and let them color the interface chartruse if they like! Give 'em that along with edl options, 10bit, hardware support, an improved titler and media mgmt.

Oh, Jeez, I'm all wet...

Sony and their dealers do have these kinds of things but guess which NLE's they sell. You guessed it, Avid.

I'll vouch for that. My local Sony rep is also an Avid rep. Until my college started using Vegas, he'd barely heard of it. Needless to say, guess which system he pushes :-(

Mike

as usual I am missing something here. What makes the difference if Vegas has a funny name, pros dont know what it is ( i disagree on that one) doesn't have the name rec of avid or fcp,, etc,etd,etc,

Unless i had stock the company , makes no difference to me what anyone thinks of Vegas,, i like it and it works for me and have never lost a client , broadcast or whatever, because of vegas and its goofy interface and funny name.
my 2 cents

I agree with risce1. This is useless for Sony to compete with Avid and this is coming from someone who actually likes Avid Xpress HD. What should be asked is how can Avid compete with Vegas when Vegas offers more media choices and a lower price point and yes, easier use of editing.

A great editor can edit on anything, its their vision and creativity that makes it work, NOT the NLE. Let some pioneer edit on Pinnale Studio and put somone not as creative on Avid and you will see what I mean.

Use what works for you. But for the love of God, can we all stop trying making our software look and feel like other software? If Vegas and Avid looked the same then why not merge the companies?

What's in a name?
That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.

1- I don't think Vegas should try to mimic Avid's look. That doesn't do anyhing for the user.

However, it might be nice to standardize on names... i.e. split edit = blade = razor = split
This way you can figure out what's what on the system. And if you don't know what button it is to slip edit in Vegas, you could search the help files and find it. It's unfortunate that in Vegas, it's difficult to figure out how to slip edit.

2- The name:
Sony Vegas is a reasonable name... Sony has a certain reputation to it, which is good. Everyone assumes that Sony's NLE (and any Sony product) is decent. Which Vegas definitely is.
For the Vegas part, it doesn't say anything about the product. Just like Avid, Final Cut, Edition, etc.

3- I think we should ask for features that benefit the users directly, and aren't simply for marketing reasons. At the end of the day, you want a better NLE. Vegas could work on solving the biggest problems editors face:
i.e.
--productivity wasted while waiting for rendering
--productivity wasted pushing buttons (Vegas is pretty good here)
--productivity wasted searching for clips + logging clips
--learning curve
--quality - i.e. good audio+video noise reduction plug-ins, things for fixing white balance, color grading. 3rd parties may step in here.
--quality- titler
--format support? (P2)
--quality - rendering pipeline, (interface) better handling of studio RGB versus computer RGB.
--cost is probably low on the list.

4- Marketing doesn't have to be tackled by adding certain product features.

IMO .. i dont think Sony wants to compete against Avid, i think they look at it in a diffrent way, its a business after all and from a business point of view all they care is profit, and they are getting it from those whom Vegas is intended to serve, so their keeping it that way.

agree there farss. But most people don't want to realize that for the price of an avid turnkey system they could buy 3 or 4 PC's, all with the exact same setups that have vegas loaded & ready to go. So, not only do you have a backup, you have networkrendering if desired & the ability to work while rendering w/o any PC resource loss.

It's a whole different bag of apple that people aren't used to. It's like "Man, my $100,000 car broke down again! I gotta run to the dealer to deal with it!" when it could jsut be "I just bought 4 $25,000 cars. When one goes down i go to another & send that broken one off on monday". People just aren't used to thinking that way.

Actually B&H offers a Vegas Turnkey solution:

B&H Photo Price : $ 3,499.95


Vegas Video 6+DVD/HP XW8200 Turnkey Editing System - HP XW8200 with 3.2GHz Intel Xeon CPU, 1.5GB RAM, 660GB Hard Drive, Dual-Layer DVD Burner, Quadro FX 1400 Graphics, Windows XP Professional

B&H # SOV6PDVDT

What's so great about the Avid interface? I hate it honestly. Premiere & Final Cut I like, but I despise everything about Media Composer. The Vegas interface doesn't bother me but if they updated it to be more attractive I wouldn't argue. What Vegas seriously needs is a real titler. No software is perfect, though. But if you've used all the other NLE's you'll know that Vegas is much closer to perfection than anything else out there right now.

I think the Vegas interface is appropriate for Windows. PPro's interface still has too much Mac in it. If I want Mac I'll buy one.

I hate the way PPro opens, I much prefer being able to open Vegas and have it allow me to choose which video type I want to work with without it being labeled as in PPro.

BTW, I've been using both for years and I still think Vegas gets to the point way faster than PPro.

JMHO.

I think the Vegas interface is appropriate for Windows. PPro's interface still has too much Mac in it. If I want Mac I'll buy one.

I like the Premiere Pro Interface. It goes well with Adobe's Video Production Bundle.
Same as the look of Sony's Products mimic each other... Apple's Products mimic each other... etc.

Personally, I think the look of Windows is 'Dated'. So does Microsoft... that's what Vista is all about. Mac's look Damn Good' IMHO. I would LOVE to see the Sony products go more in that direction as far as looks. Right now the Sony products look like a Windows '98 product. I think this is where the thought that it's not a Professional product. Professional Products have a certain look. Sony products do NOT have this 'Professional-Polished' look. (yet)

I use WindowBlinds (with no problems) to make VEGAS look a little more pleasant to MY eye. I prefer a Darker Interface and XP/Mac Style Buttons.

To me... a Creative Tool should look Creative.
SonyMediaSoftware looks Consumer.
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Slick Thinking.
This is what MAC is doing with their Operating systems also.
I like your City Choices too. --where/what is Santiago?

Glen chann stated:
3- I think we should ask for features that benefit the users directly, and aren't simply for marketing reasons. At the end of the day, you want a better NLE. Vegas could work on solving the biggest problems editors face:
i.e.

--productivity wasted while waiting for rendering
this is no 1 for me as well. I hate time lost.

--productivity wasted searching for clips + logging clips
I don't have a prob with this but all my projects have been very small.

--learning curve
Sony EXCELS FAR ahead of the other. I tried Liquid 7 and MAN i couldnt even get a cross fade in 10 minutes.

--quality - i.e. good audio+video noise reduction plug-ins, things for fixing white balance, color grading. 3rd parties may step in here.
AGREED! Sony should quit selling NR2 and include it in DVDARC pacakge

--quality- titler
AGREED! I use 3d modelers and renderes to do alot of my titling for good looking sequences but having a GREAT vector base would be soooo nice.

--format support? (P2)
I dont play playstation2 (just kidding) I dont know what p2 is

--cost is probably low on the list.
Cost is already good.

I'll add one more--
All windows in Vegas should dock where you want em.
I would like the trim to run Horiz like the work area for the full width but it wont dock so I keep it open as a window. However it always goes over the preview or the work area depending on the layout.
minor but I would like a fully opeen docked trim.

Auggy

here are the Vasst themes if you dont like Vegas Default look

http://www.vasst.com/training/Themes/themes.htm

the Lighter theme is really good and relaxing for the Eyes.