I'm sick and tired of this piracy

farss wrote on 10/19/2006, 1:46 AM

Sorry I have to disgree most strongly. I've only recently had enough dramas with this half baked registration process.
If it gets any worse it could well be the straw that breaks the camels back for me.
Yes I've damn well apid for the thing and ALL the bits that go with it so why do I have to go through multiple registration processes which CRASH?

Oh and tech support are really, really helpful. Why don't you uninstall ALL the Sony products that use that codec. Yeah right, after I just got them installed and almost back the way they were before my HDD went south.

I don't like piracy anymore than the next guy but punishing the legit users is NOT the answer. And as far as I know PPro was cracked just as easily as Vegas. Yes I've met some undesirable types who have cracked copies of every NLE know to man on their systems, so what. They don't know how to use any of them, it goes with the mindset. Just like any thief, stupid enough to break the law, you're also too stupid to enjoy the spoils.

Bob

TheHappyFriar wrote on 10/19/2006, 5:50 AM

i don't belive Vegas piracy is as rampent as games/Windows is. Infact, it's probley just a drop in the bucket. :) (that's GOOD news!)

re: farss

you think them telling you to uninstal all your Sony products is bad? The game Half Life 2, if there is a problem with it, the first thing you're told is delete all it's files off you HD, which is 4gb. Then re-download. Yes, re-download, you MUST re-download it all online! No other option! So i see installing 5 exe's off my HD a heck of a lot easier then downloading 4gb's. (and, if the download process, or update if you're updating, goes bad, you can NOT use the product at all, you must start over from scratch.... again! AND wait ~5 minutes for it to be unlocked, and if it doesn't, you can't use it at all!)

farss wrote on 10/19/2006, 6:17 AM

Thanks for reminding me why I don't play games!
Actually I'm telling fibs, I just suck at them.

But here's the odd thing, I didn't follow their advice, I just uninstalled Vegas and re-installed it and registered it again and immediately registered the mp3 codec and all was well, very wierd. This problem happened on two PCs, both installs were form the same download of the same 3rd PC and both got fixed the same way.

bStro wrote on 10/19/2006, 6:28 AM

C'mon Sony, beef up the registration for the software so I don't get mad about the money I've spent to stay legal

If you have some suggestions for how to "beef up the registration" without pissing off paying customers, I'm sure the software industry at large would love to hear them. ;-)

Rob

Laurence wrote on 10/19/2006, 6:41 AM

I just personally pirated a piece of software recently. Why? Well I already owned it, but I didn't want to have to keep switching the silly USB dongle thingy between my laptop and my desktop anymore.

I use a cracked version of the waves plugins as well. Yeah I own them legally, but I absolutely am scared to death of the PACE copy protection. Waves lost me as a customer because of this. I refuse to upgrade to a later version of their software because I don't want to buy a version that I'm afraid to install, but I don't want to have to search for a pirate version either

Now, whether or not I can live with the copy protection scheme is as important to me as how well the software works. Horrible copy protection is probably the greatest single encourager of piracy.

TomE wrote on 10/19/2006, 6:44 AM

Locks keep honest people out.

Quote from a locksmith who was using lock picking tools to help me get back in my dorm room back in my college days. Never forgot that. Lock your doors so you dont temp honest people is the other side of that.

richard-courtney wrote on 10/19/2006, 7:54 AM

Somehow I don't think someone that is talented enough to create good video
is someone to use pirated NLE software.

The sites that have cracked code are usually ones that try to put virus/password
grabbers along with it. So anyone foolish to go to the sites are getting partly what
they deserve.

rmack350 wrote on 10/19/2006, 8:51 AM

I don't know that there's a real correlation. Maybe you can say that those who are willing to pay are probably more likely to be serious users, but I don't think it follows that people who use cracked versions will be bad editors. What you probably could say is that the users of cracked Vegas are more likely to be youtube posters but that's because the pieces are short and free.

In the 80's most of my friends were using Macs and all of them had copies of software. Photoshop, Illustrator, Freehand, etc were all freely passed around and became ubiquitous. Everyone got used to photoshop and now it's a household name. I couldn't see that Adobe was making any effort at all to control piracy.

Of course this doesn't happen much any more and Adobe is draconian about their antipiracy efforts, but there's still a good lesson to be learned. How do you get your software into as many hands as possible and convince people to eventually start paying for it? One way is to ignore cracks but a better way might be to just give away reasonably adequate versions of it and then charge for add-ins. Controlling the modules lets you get the product out there and have a revenue stream later once you build the base.

The one thing about users of cracks is (I assume) they're mostly young, not too flush for cash, not producing anything for pay, and probably really good sources of word-of-mouth promotion. If they are young then you are building a base that probably will pay for the software 3-10 years down the road (but probably just at the upgrade price).

These are actually good people to market to if you take a longer view. The Madison product line lets you mix and edit audio, make videos for DVD and the web...really, the only thing missing is a killer VJ application.

Probably the best way to get that last dollar is to start selling hardware I/O cards for Vegas. Those aren't something you can crack.

Rob Mack

[r]Evolution wrote on 10/19/2006, 8:57 AM

really, the only thing missing is a killer VJ application.

- A good compositing program (ie, After Effects, Boris RED, Combustion, Motion)
- The entire Sony suite should be able to talk. Sending projects back & forth.

Actually I'm just gonna stop right there. (biting my tongue)

rmack350 wrote on 10/19/2006, 9:17 AM

No, you're right, there are plenty of possibilities. I think the VJ application idea is more a matter of what would fit in with a young-ish user group that would spread the software base.

If you've looked at any of these applications, they are generally real-time compositors using the graphics card's GPU (using DirectX if under windows). They generally sell for as much as or more than Vegas (although I'm sure that they get cracked all the time). They seem like they'd benefit mightily from a control surface and maybe some of them support such things.

There are scores of these types of applications, most are really quirky, and I've never spent enough time on one to actually learn to use it, but I can see they have a lot of potential. The one I keep coming back to is Resolume but there are plenty of others out there.

Now, honestly, people who use this stuff may well be using the Madison product line to prep clips and sounds to mix live at shows. Wouldn't it be good to have the products used more and talked about more in that group? Yeah, they might be insufferable on this forum...

Rob

TheHappyFriar wrote on 10/19/2006, 10:07 AM

only that company makes you go through those hoops. most games just have you enter in a serial #/key & confirm with a server for online play. And i suck too... doesn't mean i don't like to play. :D

TheHappyFriar wrote on 10/19/2006, 10:14 AM

hey, I may be young, i may be seriously strapped for cash, but I BUY all my software & ocationatly use a crack when going with the companies copy protection scheme is a negative on my useage of the product. I've actuatly got software i spent $$ on i do NOT use anymore because I can't stand the copyprotection that's been inplimented. The dev's don't care: they've got my $$.

rmack350 wrote on 10/19/2006, 2:41 PM

I'm certainly not advocating using cracked software but I'm trying to illustrate that some companies built huge followings by not protecting their software very well. Adobe is a prime example.

Occasionally, some of the people who might pirate a creative tool are actually people you want to have the tool, because they have lots of influence through word of mouth or blogs or whatever. Generally, you want to get college age people using the tools because many of them will be working professionally in 5-10 years. Definitely, many of the young pup PAs who came into the lighting rental house I worked in in the 80s are now producing film and video professionally. At the time it was hard to see what their future was.

So the puzzle to solve is how to get people into the software while still keeping control of the licenses. Maybe the key is to have a sort of grant program that gives someone a fixed term license based on a project proposal. In this way you get the software to students and artists for a while.

Rob Mack

winrockpost wrote on 10/19/2006, 3:00 PM

.........................I have just seen yet another user with a cracked version of Sony Vegas 7, besides the multitude of people out there with previous cracked versions......................................

Well if you are sick of it call sony and tell them about the people you know who stole their product,,, otherwise don't cry about it.
It is a problem, but so are car theives, bank robbers, and etc,, would you report a bank robber you knew to bank of america ? Drastic comparison I know , but ....

DavidMcKnight wrote on 10/19/2006, 3:04 PM

Generally, you want to get college age people using the tools because many of them will be working professionally in 5-10 years.

That's why Sony and most others sell academic licenses cheaper. "But not everyone who wants to use the software goes to college" (sigh) I know. Thieves. Lock 'em up.

farss wrote on 10/19/2006, 3:21 PM

If you look at another thread here "Adobe buys Serious Magic" you get a handle on what I see as an ethical problem.
You buy a product and then at the discretion of a 3rd party you're denied the right to use it.

kitekrazee wrote on 10/19/2006, 3:59 PM

"C'mon Sony, beef up the registration for the software so I don't get mad about the money I've spent to stay legal"

What a lame thread. Sounds like someone is out to prove they are more self righteous than everyone else.

It's pretty simple. If you don't like the registration process-switch to another product.

The reason why I buy Sony, Cakewalk and Native Instruments products is because of the registration process.

Someone needs a grip on reality. There isn't much out there that is free from piracy unless it is open source.

Option 2. If you are sick of this piracy, make sure you buy the product. It's the legit users who keep things going.

riredale wrote on 10/19/2006, 9:40 PM

I won't wade into this pirated/registered argument, but I will say this:

If I were Product Manager for Vegas I would look at the marginal cost of a copy of Vegas7 (what it actually costs to make an extra copy available). If the cost were trivial, then I would announce that, as long as the purchase was on an academic letterhead, the price for a given time period would be $0. Free. Gratis. As many copies as you want. So, what's the marginal cost of a copy of Vegas7? The server overhead? A toll-free helpline?

The way to rake in the money is to FIRST get your product to be the defacto standard, THEN charge a reasonable price for it. As already mentioned by someone else, I don't think Photoshop would have become a universal standard if it hadn't been for widespread piracy over the past decade. Now, Adobe can charge $500 for copies, especially for business use, because a disgruntled ex-employee can get his ex-employer in big trouble if that employer is using cracked versions.

corug7 wrote on 10/19/2006, 11:58 PM

"...Adobe is draconian about their antipiracy efforts"

Nevermind a licensed copy! CS2 was causing havoc with our disc printers. Now Adobe, unlike Sony, does not allow the use of previous versions of their software after upgrading, so we gave them a call to see if they would allow us to re-install CS1.

No. They wouldn't.

Nevermind that we purchase every upgrade from them. Nevermind that they already had our money for CS1 AND CS2.

No.

Thanks for having a reasonable EULA, SMS, at least we can't complain about that!

dannyoneill wrote on 10/20/2006, 12:59 AM

Beefing up the activation would do nothing.

Adobes activation is sometimes a pain but you can get the very latest Photoshop CS2 all activated without any problems.

Same goes for every other program on this planet. Somewhere there is a hack and it can all be found on one single website.

RJ Fielder wrote on 10/20/2006, 4:21 AM

"Nevermind a licensed copy! CS2 was causing havoc with our disc printers. Now Adobe, unlike Sony, does not allow the use of previous versions of their software after upgrading, so we gave them a call to see if they would allow us to re-install CS1.

No. They wouldn't.

Nevermind that we purchase every upgrade from them. Nevermind that they already had our money for CS1 AND CS2.

No."

This is exactly why I'm still using PS7. Just a simple serial, no fuss, no muss. And none of the extra bloat they included in the CS's.

Kanst wrote on 10/20/2006, 5:53 AM

I know many people with a lot of money, who try a hundreds cracked programs first, then buy one, that really needed for their work.
And about registration process: Do you know any popular program without crack for it, presented in NET?
All SonicFoundry\Sony and third party plugins has a cracks\pathes in www or p2p. All other too: Adobe, AVID, Canopus, Cinemacraft ets. If someone has decided to work only in the cracked program, it will find a way to find or made crack in any case.
And the developer only will waste time also money for change of registration.
Just remember a monsterfull protection of Nuendo 3, wich was cracked in a few weeks.
And more example: what gives for developer a new algorithm of Vegas 5 registration, it gives more money? IMHO not!
Let's we, who pay, live with a clear soul, and shame on other. No more else!
Or may by you want back to linear editing?

baysidebas wrote on 10/20/2006, 11:15 AM

Anyone using a cracked program is playing with fire.

I use, in addition to VV for my serious work, VideoReDo for just quick and dirty editing (cuts only) of mpeg files. In the past few months there have been postings on the VRD forum from users complaining that somehow VRD was deleting their source media files from their drives. Guess what? It was a cracked version doing the rounds and causing havoc. The gall of these pirates never ceases to amaze me, but they got what they deserved.

Jonathan Neal wrote on 10/20/2006, 11:46 AM

Ahem, hate to chime in so late but there is no "crack" for Sony Vegas. I'd like to educate everyone interested on how piracy is executed, and what we need to expect as legitimate users and developers.

Truth: Any serial number protection is easy to get around. Why? Because you don't get around it, you solve it. Serial protection is easily reversible by genius (sarcasm) "hackers" who use a very legitimate piece of software called SoftIce. SoftIce is not a pirating tool, but it is used to see how software manipulates computer data, and therefore can be used for pirate purposes.

You see, the genius (sarcasm) "hacker" simply monitors the changes made to the system via Softice, and in this case they are watching Sony Vegas run an algorithm with a provided serial number. The serial number they test this with doesn't need to be correct, because they're just watching for the algorithm. At the end of this algorithm they see something like IF '. Wow, real complex. These "genius" hackers then create a program which produces serial numbers that will fulfill that algorithm.

What about software with activation, you ask? Well, it's a useless feature I'm afraid, because it doesn't stop the honest person, and it's no bigger tackle for the pirate. Sony Vegas doesn't require anyone to activate online to use their software. So, big shocker, the "genius" (sarcasm) hacker checks for yet another algorithm and writes another piece of software that produces another "legitimate" number. I don't need to remind you that Pirates aren't looking for official software support, right?

So, as you might have now figured out by now, the Activation feature in Sony Software is completely useless. If you want support, you enter your serial number into the website (like we all did, or I did at least). Sony has a list of real serial numbers and, now, after I entered in mine, Sony has my name with my number for my software. I have fantastic access to their support team, and I can send them my little quips, bugs, questions, and suggestions. Great, so what did Activation do? It was a useless step in ensuring I was legitimate, because the pirates never had to "phone home". I question the appearance of Activation for Sony Software in the first place.

Serial protection / response-code activation is usually contracted through a third-party developer. So, you guessed it, Sony probably paid more money so that genius (sarcasm) "hackers" could do 4 minutes of work instead of 3. This is all about an old uninformed business mentality meeting a new informed business mentality.

For anyone who is still reading my post, let me conclude with this stunning revelation. A lot of the "hackers" end up selling the same protection they know how to crack. Why? Because, of all people, they know people buy it. They even use some of that money to legitimately own software. Why? Because, of all people, they appreciate a well designed piece of software.

PS: If I wanted to, I could have turned this post into a three-hour expanded lecture and made thousands of dollars myself. Sometimes it's just better to give than to receive. Then again, hmm, you never know - I'm Jonathan Neal and I'm for rent :)