I want Copy-able Bezier Mask Points! Badly!!

Grazie wrote on 7/27/2007, 4:21 AM
Y'know, the Bezier tool is awesome.

It is one of those graphics tools that turns a multi track bit of eye-candy into, well something else - yeah?

But why not finish the job and give us the options to COPY the complex points we can lay down.

I have other "ideas" for this great lil tool, but I'll bide my time on them ..

Grazie

Comments

farss wrote on 7/27/2007, 5:56 AM
Couldn't agee more.
There seems to be a few areas where Vegas is missing that last 10%, although none others spring to mind immediately.

Bob.
Grazie wrote on 7/27/2007, 6:06 AM
* Ability to save my own home grown Bezier mask/shapes

* Copy Paste PsP/PS Shapes INTO the BEzier Frame

* Coloured Borders to BEziers

* Splice/Cut and Join intercepts of Bezier Lines.

* Anchor Snaps to Grid markings/dots!!

* Multi Mask Timelines

. .

Bob, I have others too!!

Grazie

Grazie wrote on 7/27/2007, 6:14 AM
* Something other than Feather? Like a solid border . .of a User-select Colour?

* Snap to Grids for moving Masks

* Mask Grouping

. .

More?

TheHappyFriar wrote on 7/27/2007, 6:18 AM
* Ability to save my own home grown Bezier mask/shapes

copy/paste keyframes between clips & save as presets.

* Multi Mask Timelines

can put multiple seperate masks in the same event OR use multiple track in the Timeline. Does the same thing (preview will show you in RT how it looks).

Snap to grid & adding color would be nice.
farss wrote on 7/27/2007, 6:30 AM
You're way ahead of me...and that's just Beziers!

If you want to get fancy, a tracker would be excellent and having a mask follow a path would be very useful too. But let's not get too ambitious, some of what I'm talking about is in the domain of higher end apps. I think just the basic Copy-able Bezier would / should be easy enough to do and dramatically enhance the functionality of the tool.
I think I can understand your frustration here, you can see the potential, heck with enough work you can make almost anything your mind can conjure happen but it can take so much slog to make it happen it kind of dampens the creative spirit, more so when it's a missing bit of functionality that seems obvious should have been there.

I think I've struck the same thing with compositing in Vegas, I can end up with so much happening and so much of the complexity exposed that the desire to make something happen gets lost.

Bob.
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 7/27/2007, 9:13 AM
ok, you can copy and paste the key frame in the masking so that (sort of) accomplishes one of these does it not?

and I can apply several masks to a clip and have them cut themselves out etc... so I'm not sure but I think that would be the "mutliple masking on a time line" no?

to add to the list I have always wanted to be able to scale my current selection around it's center point (and around the frame center point for that matter). Would save me a world of work now and then.

The ability to see directly in the masking tool the footage that you're masking would dramatically speed some of these things up.

Motion paths

up to 4 point Pixel tracking

I'm a really big fan of the idea Grazie brought up about joining two masks together but a workaround now is to just lay them atop one another and then keep them that way.

Dave
Grazie wrote on 7/28/2007, 1:19 AM
Sorry Guys for a LATE response. Anyways, back now . ..


HappyFriar

copy/paste keyframes between clips & save as presets.

Yes of course - me TOTAL fool!!!

can put multiple seperate masks in the same event OR use multiple track in the Timeline. Does the same thing (preview will show you in RT how it looks).

Yes, yes of course, but this being a complex and comprehensive tool I would want to keep this work WITHIN the task at hand - I'm Masking. Meaning ONE piece of work within ONE activity. HF, please see below my reply to David for my MultipleMaskTimelines, and why. Yes, layering Tracks IS an option, but, IMO, messy and not intuitive enough.


David:

ok, you can copy and paste the key frame in the masking so that (sort of) accomplishes one of these does it not?

Yes, yes I can. Which brought me to the wish for the following . .

and I can apply several masks to a clip and have them cut themselves out etc... so I'm not sure but I think that would be the "mutliple masking on a time line" no?

I'm wanting Multiple Mask Timelines. This way I can organise and dissacociate Copy>Paste Keyframe tasks to and within complex Masking:

MaskTimeline1 for Mask1
MaskTimeline2 for Mask2
MaskTimeline3 for Mask3
. . .
MaskTimeline"n" for Mask"n"

to add to the list I have always wanted to be able to scale my current selection around it's center point (and around the frame center point for that matter). Would save me a world of work now and then.

Sounds good. Please explain further?

The ability to see directly in the masking tool the footage that you're masking would dramatically speed some of these things up.

Eh? Sorry David, I CAN see my media within the Masking window?

Motion paths
Yes yes yes . .

up to 4 point Pixel tracking
Please explain?

. . joining two masks together but a workaround now is to just lay them atop one another and then keep them that way.

Well, yes .. and no. Yes, it IS a workaround and no, what I want is to be able to GROUP them so that they stay LOCKED together AS I move them about. Laying them on top of each creates the effect, yes, but they don't remain locked for manipulation - see?

I think this is shaping-up to be a precise WISH List.

If we tidy it up a bit, it is OFF to suggestion box!

Grazie

farss wrote on 7/28/2007, 2:05 AM
4 point pixel tracking means being able to lock 4 nodes to 4 pixels in the source image. If the pixel in the source moves, the node moves. Probably need a bit more than that to make it really flexible.
Simple example, you want to replace the sign on the back / side of a bus as it drives past the camera and goes around a corner.
You assign 4 tracking nodes, one to each corner of the sign, the compositing automatically moves the nodes as the bus moves and handles rescaling / skewing the replacement image.

Bob.
Grazie wrote on 7/28/2007, 2:06 AM
Thanks MrB!!
TheHappyFriar wrote on 7/28/2007, 7:29 AM
Yes, yes of course, but this being a complex and comprehensive tool I would want to keep this work WITHIN the task at hand - I'm Masking. Meaning ONE piece of work within ONE activity. HF, please see below my reply to David for my MultipleMaskTimelines, and why. Yes, layering Tracks IS an option, but, IMO, messy and not intuitive enough.

I agree, but at least it CAN be done. Only because Vegas has unlimited tracks. :D Would be easier to have multiple mask tracks in one clip just because then you could see the keyframes while working on other maks (unlike the multi-clip track option). And, unlike the multimaks in the single mask-track option the keyframes would be easier to handle.

This is some pretty cool features you're coming up with here. Those would get me to upgrade from V6 to V8 (as long as no other features were lost). :D
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 7/28/2007, 7:57 AM
The ability to see directly in the masking tool the footage that you're masking would dramatically speed some of these things up.

Sorry should have been more clear, I was thinking more in the line of onion skinning so that I can see what I'm masking in cases where I'm actually masking a shape from one track to footage on another track.

Dave
Grazie wrote on 7/28/2007, 9:46 AM
HP

Would be easier to have multiple mask tracks in one clip just because then you could see the keyframes while working on other maks (unlike the multi-clip track option). And, unlike the multimaks in the single mask-track option the keyframes would be easier to handle.

Exactly!! Thanks for the recog too!


David

I was thinking more in the line of onion skinning so that I can see what I'm masking in cases where I'm actually masking a shape from one track to footage on another track.

Oh! This I do too. I set up GRIDS over my Preview Window. I then go to my MASK window. I then POSITION, not looking within MASK Window, but using the PREVIEW Window!! Works a treat! I use the smallest of Grids.

Grazie

Widetrack wrote on 7/29/2007, 10:49 PM
You guys inspired me to check out the bezier masks, and I see why everyone finds them so useful.

But right off I ran into a bump. Is there a way to move an anchor point after you create it? I looked in help and it just says clik and drag, but all that happens is the little curve handles appear and i end up just curving the lines. I can't figur out how to move the actual points.

I'm thinking about creating a mask that grows over time, so you could, i.e., draw a circle in the air in real time.

Thanx.
Grazie wrote on 7/29/2007, 11:27 PM
Oh yes! Very rich in options, our Bezier!

You've asked 2 questions:

Q1 - Anchor Moves

Q2 - Drawing A Circle

Anchor Moves [AP]

1 - Create an AP

2 - Change Cursor tool to "Normal Edit Tool" [NET]

3 - Click OFF or away from the Mask ( the Anchors will disappear)

4 - Move NET back towards the Mask and you will see the LINES/PATH light up

5 - Left Click on the ANCHOR you wish to move and ALL your other points will appear as OPEN squares. This means, for me, I HAVE selected the ANCHOR I want to move.

6 - LEFT Click on the anchor and Drag.

7 - Now try this on the other Anchor points!

TIPS:
T1: Click on/middle of a JOINING line and the APs at either end will light up. If you now LEFT Click on one of these points you can DRAG the joining line around the work area.

T2: Shift Select Points. This will allow me to move COLLECTIONS of points and their joining lines!

Drawing A Circle

If you really mean a circle coming to life, we can't show the actual Circumference appearing. Masks only appear ONCE they are closed off. So you could, I guess have a circle emerge from an enclosed shape? However, for this I might just swap options and use a single Circle in Cookie Cutter?

Grazie
TheHappyFriar wrote on 7/30/2007, 6:20 AM
you can draw a circle with at least two points but it's a pain. if you want a simple circle that grows/shrinks use the cookie cutter.
Widetrack wrote on 7/30/2007, 1:43 PM
I just used bezier points to draw a shape--call it a demented circle--I'd like you guys to see, but I don't know a simple way to upload it to a site where everyone can see it. Can anyone suggest how I can do this?

It was a bit of a pain, but clearly will be easier after I practice and learn the idiosyncrasies of the technique.

One thing this clearly shows, however is something I've sort of suspected for a while but haven't checked out: if you create 2 (or more) keyframes in Pan Crop, then, on the 2nd one, e.g., change 2 or more parameters (like creating a new bezier anchor point, then moving it, then changing the curve handles), when you play the clip, Vegas does not just change all the parameters from their state in the earlier keyframe to the state in the later one, but changes parameters IN THE ORDER THAT YOU CHANGED THEM.

So my "circle" grows a new segment, then visibly changes the width and curvature of the segment in an apparent random way until those parameters end up as they appear in the keyframe.

The reason this is important is not only that you have to make your editing moves in precisely the way you want them to occur in the video, but that Vegas STORES the various paths you make as you change things. This suggests strongly that Madison might be able to let us see the stored paths and edit them graphically instead of just dragging frames and bezier points etc. I'd love to see that. It would add a heck of a lot of functionality to Pan/Crop.

I hope I'm making sense here, It's hard to put some of this stuff into words.