iZotope plugin automation causing stutter in Vegas Pro 18 (build 527)

Shimager wrote on 1/11/2023, 3:58 PM

Hi, I am curious to know what are the experiences with iZotope plugins for users of Vegas Pro 18 especially when using automation envelopes (example Ozone 9 Elements). This as I experienced a very sluggish sound once the automation pattern is shifting the settings. Once the automation is on stable path again the sluggishness disappears completely. But that also means that the automation should be on absolute value without any progression. For this I have to manually enter the automation node settings. Any offset making the automation path not theoretically horizontal causes sluggishness... Quite annoying that this occurs... Does everyone experience that in v18? Is that solved in Vegas Pro 20?
As example I have three screen dumps.

before the transition showing the Ozone maximiser settings

after the transition showing the Ozone maximiser settings

the way to secure that all lines are really horizontal. ANy 0.01 dB difference over time causes stutter.

The renders all work correct still, just reall time it becomes horror (despite very fast i9-10850 machine + RTX3060 not at all using all resources)

Hope to know more :-)

Thanks in advance.

Comments

Shimager wrote on 1/29/2023, 10:45 AM

OK, update. No-one was answering and I decided to take a risk... Upgraded to VP 20 and the stuttering on sloped automation is happily gone! Can focus again on the audio creativity. I do like the mixing features in Vegas Pro. They might not give the full set as in Studio One or other DAWs, but usually I can do all with Vegas Pro also with the advantage that with more tracks on one channel, I can still vary my effects per track and I do not need to make another channel. Great benefit to keep channels low.

Foo-Bar wrote on 2/16/2023, 12:27 PM

OK, update. No-one was answering and I decided to take a risk... Upgraded to VP 20 and the stuttering on sloped automation is happily gone! Can focus again on the audio creativity. I do like the mixing features in Vegas Pro. They might not give the full set as in Studio One or other DAWs, but usually I can do all with Vegas Pro also with the advantage that with more tracks on one channel, I can still vary my effects per track and I do not need to make another channel. Great benefit to keep channels low.

I can confirm the exact same issue (using Vegas 17, 18 and 19).

Even 0.01% drop (which even doesn't result in a valid parameter, since you can't drop from 1.01dB to anything lower, once you set it to 0.01% drop), does "hang / freeze / slow down" the system.

My system isn't top-notch (Intel 12th Gen, 64Gb RAM, Samsung 980-PRO SSD's), but couldn't handle even a 0.01% change in real-time.

Vegas 20 did solve it (mostly), sometimes (with a noise profiler at highest setting) it still stutters (solution : lower the quality while editing).

Shimager wrote on 2/16/2023, 2:12 PM

@Foo-Bar OK, sounds like exactly same issue that I had indeed. Here now with an i9, 10th gen, 32Gb RAM and an RTX3060. Seems to stay smooth now...

rraud wrote on 2/16/2023, 2:25 PM

As I recall and experienced, the stuttering issue (when a plug-in is viewed and/or adj.) goes back to 'at least' VP-16. It is annoying to say the least and in many cases makes VP unusable for a lot of audio work, aside from the basics.
rraud, Magix forums moderator

Shimager wrote on 2/16/2023, 2:34 PM

@rraud Yes, indeed a pity as Vegas originally started as an audio mixer from what I understood, which it now does great again> One of my projects is using 13 separate audio tracks, with effects on master, track or track media. The great benefit of this over various DAWS that when I have multiple media in one track (or channel), I can use an overall effect for the channel as well as individual effects on the individual media in that same track. In many DAWS people need to add individual tracks to get to the same. This keeps Vegas quite condensed :-) Just saying as I am happy that current Vegas again works well.

Foo-Bar wrote on 2/16/2023, 2:39 PM

As I recall and experienced, the stuttering issue (when a plug-in is viewed and/or adj.) goes back to 'at least' VP-16. It is annoying to say the least and in many cases makes VP unusable for a lot of audio work, aside from the basics.
rraud, Magix forums moderator

Guess what, even "looking" at a plug-in does slow down both the system and (final) rendering.

I use Vegas for audio-editing only, but did a lot of tests, because Vegas 20 is so full of bugs.

I am not going to all details, but let's consider this scenario;

  • plug-in : RX voice de-noiser
  • set the plug-in into view, so you can "see" the EQ / curves go up and down while rendering
  • render the project
  • it takes about 5 minutes (just a random number)
  • plug-in : RX voice de-noiser
  • do NOT set the plug-in into view, so you can't "see" the EQ / curves go up and down while rendering (hide it from the GUI)
  • render the project
  • it takes about 3,5 minutes (just a random number)

So even "looking at things" does slow down both rendering and previewing (while editing).

It depends on your GPU and type of plug-in you "see", by the way (noise reduction plug-ins are really bad, when looking at).

This is especially with RX09 / RX10 but also with Melda and only in combination with Vegas (not Reaper, etc...).

Simply "hiding" the plug-in chain from view while rendering, speeds up the proces by 50 to 35% in my case.

I am working at a big project for about 5 years now, most of it is done in Vegas 19.

I am not going to upgrade this project to Vegas 20, because you can't open Vegas 20 files in Vegas 19 (and for sure in the far future I have to re-open those files, so I keep the whole project in Vegas 19).

But during debugging, I did edit the whole thing in Vegas 19 and rendered the file (you can open Vegas 19 in Vegas 20) in Vegas 20;

This work-a-round alone speeded up the whole workflow / chain with more than 35%... that's a cheap upgrade (considered to a new CPU or system).

Foo-Bar wrote on 2/16/2023, 2:48 PM

 

@rraud Yes, indeed a pity as Vegas originally started as an audio mixer from what I understood, which it now does great again> One of my projects is using 13 separate audio tracks, with effects on master, track or track media. The great benefit of this over various DAWS that when I have multiple media in one track (or channel), I can use an overall effect for the channel as well as individual effects on the individual media in that same track. In many DAWS people need to add individual tracks to get to the same. This keeps Vegas quite condensed :-) Just saying as I am happy that current Vegas again works well.

 

Yeah, it started once as a NLE / DAW for audio only.

I use Vegas since version 3.

It fitted on some floppies back in time and was fully portable, without copyright protection (yeah, I know).

I grabbed the Vegas (Windows) folder from a professional audio-studio, placed it as a .zip-file on some disks and biked to my home.

There I unzipped the package, and it was up and running!

But the main reason I started to use it, was because you could very quick encode / decode exotic movietypes to .mov / .avi, etc...

Just drag the moviefile (from weird phones at the beginning of 2000) into the trackview, render as QuickTime and voila; a perfectly encoded .3GP to .MOV file.

After that I started to use it for animations and audio, because I did like the look / feel / GUI and multi-functionality of it.

I have never edited one single movie using Vegas, consider that it's a movie editing studio now...

Of course I did buy all the copies of Vegas later on!

Shimager wrote on 2/16/2023, 2:50 PM

@Foo-Bar Good point that I noticed as well. Viewing the plug-in indeed slowed things down with 18/19. But I also noticed (at least in previous version) that the plug-ins do not well spread over available processor capacity (in contrast to video rendering). With the 20 version I see much better load sharing.

Shimager wrote on 2/16/2023, 3:15 PM

@Foo-Bar Nice by the way how you got hooked to Vegas. I can fully understand. From my side, the bug that I experienced, made me start to look to other DAWS a few months ago. It was a considerable search, but I now arrived at Presonus Studio1 for audio editing, which I am now digesting. I did not yet move over, also because for video editing I intend to stay in Vegas, but for audio studying that DAW to decide... But the hurry is gone now, as v20 works again for me.

Foo-Bar wrote on 2/16/2023, 4:59 PM

@Foo-Bar Nice by the way how you got hooked to Vegas. I can fully understand. From my side, the bug that I experienced, made me start to look to other DAWS a few months ago. It was a considerable search, but I now arrived at Presonus Studio1 for audio editing, which I am now digesting. I did not yet move over, also because for video editing I intend to stay in Vegas, but for audio studying that DAW to decide... But the hurry is gone now, as v20 works again for me.

Sounds like my situation.

I don't like to work / support the "big tech" so I stay away from companies like Adobe.

For almost 25 years I created my vector art in CorelDraw for that reason, not Adobe Illustrator.

But CorelDraw messed up, started a "subscription only" model and pushed buggy updates.

It was simple not workable any longer, so I had to jump the river to the other side and I now work in Illustrator...

Corel has lot's of more functions, better GUI design, more adaptive techniques, but their lack of support and "spit in the face of the customer" left me no choice.

Saying that, I have the same experience (software-like) with Vegas.

I grew up with it, created almost 20 years of stuff using Vegas, but the audio-stuttering was not workable any more.

So I checked out a new computer (yeah, I did buy a new one for Vegas alone!) and the software still was buggy like sh*t.

Than I started to download trials of Audacity (Adobe, I know) in stead of SoundForge and Reaper as my main DAW.

I have to be honest : Reaper is 100x faster, stable and more solid than Vegas.

But it has one big disadvantage : I use a lot of enveloppes for several "filters" on my audio (EQ, noisefloor, compressor, spectral restauration, etc...).

In Vegas you have one track and all the enveloppes are inside it (or in my case : I create a dedicated FX-bus, so the track shows only the wavepattern and the other bus shows all the (complex) automation enveloppes).

This keeps things clean and you still have a good overview, because you just have one track and one "extra" track below.

But in Reaper, for every plug-in / enveloppe a (visual) copy of the track is placed below the original one (or two, when working in enhanced audio).

So in my case I ended up with almost 8 tracks, which didn't fit in one sight / view on my monitor.. useless in daily work.

Now I have Vegas 20 working, I am still planning to migrate when needed (I will wait until Vegas 21 or 22, when they will develop it under those names) and hopefully I can still stick to Vegas (because I really love it / like it).