Judder from SF codec?

JJKizak wrote on 5/1/2003, 10:31 AM

When I use the video from my XL1-S, capture to V-4.0b, render from timeline
to MPEG2 DVD mpg (VBR-8-6-2.5meg. best) then to DVDA the result is excellent.(perfect)
If I change the MPEG2 DVD mpg to (CBR 7.3meg. best) I pick up a lot of judder
which kind of looks like 15 fps.
When I use the video from a 1995 VHS wedding video, capture to V4.0b, render
from timeline to MPEG2 DVD mpg (VBR-8-6-2.5meg best) then to DVDA the result is
a lot of judder on fast pans.
If I change the MPEG2 DVD mpg to (CBR 7.3meg. best) then to DVDA the result
is a small reduction in the judder.
If I frame serve the timeline to CCE 267 and encode with 2-pass CBR-6meg.
the result is the same as the main concept CBR 7.3meg.
If I take the captured video directly into DVDA and bypass V4.0b the result
is perfect. (no judder)
If I put the captured video directly into CCE 267 and convert to mpg then DVDA
the result is perfect. (no judder)
When I use the video from Beta SP (16mm converted to tape) record to Mini DV,
capture to V4.0b, render to MPEG2 DVD mpg (VBR-8-6-2.5meg. best)then to DVDA the result is judder again.
If I change the MPEG2 DVD mpg to (CBR-7.3 meg. best) the result is a bit better.
If I frame serve the timeline to CCE 267 and encode with 2-pass CBR-6meg the
result is the same as the main concept CBR 7.3meg.
If I take the captured video directly into DVDA and bypass V4.0b the result is
perfect. (no judder)
If I take the captured video directly into CCE 267 (2-pass CBR 6meg) and convert to mpg then to DVDA the result is perfect. (no judder)
In all of the cases above where "judder" is observed it is observable prior to
encoding in DVDA.
What I see here is that whatever codec you use in DVDA to convert the captured
AVI files to MPEG2 for DVD encoding is far superior to the coding on the V4.0b
timeline. Or something is wrong with my machine.
win2k pro SP-3+, V4.0b, Forge 6.0d, Acid 4.0b, Batch, P111-1gig 786 ram, ATI 7500,
6 SCSI drives, 1 IDE drive, mobo Supermicro P6SBA, shuttle pro and .net.
I also do not have "allow the use of third party codecs" checked
Can anyone give me a great and wonderfull detailed technical explanation
of what is going on?

JJK

Comments

prairiedogpics wrote on 5/1/2003, 11:13 AM

Do you see the judder when playing the DVD in a standalone DVD player, or in the DVD drive using WinDVD or other software player? I created a project the other day in Vegas + DVD-A and burned to DVD (using default DVD NTSC template, BEST) and when I play it in my standalone el-cheapo Magnavox DVD player I get judder during one or two fast pan scenes. When I play the same DVD via WinDVD on my PC the same pans are perfect - judder free.

Or are you playing the MPEG2 files straight in WMP? I always get skips and judder when using Media Player.

I'm probably way off base (I don't frameserve).

Dan

JJKizak wrote on 5/1/2003, 12:22 PM

I made a DVD disc on all of the tests to make sure I tested all the way through.
What I saw on Media player 9 and the TV monitor (firewire +Canopus advc-100)
were identical. The set top player is a Sony. When the judder was observed it
was on all three.

JJK

SonyEPM wrote on 5/1/2003, 1:57 PM

Is DVDA recompressing the MPEGs? (see the optimize window in DVDA)

JJKizak wrote on 5/1/2003, 2:37 PM

The CCE 267 mpg did not recompress. In fact the only things that got recompressed
were the audio to AC-3 and the Captured AVI's as described above. The Main concept
also did not recompress. The judder was evident before it was placed into DVDA.
I always use the optimize to check what DVDA is going to do. But remember the
Digital stuff from the XL1-S works just fine. Would the frame serving stuff have
anything to do with it? Also if I run the clips through steady hand prior to
placing them on the time line most of the judder is eliminated (about 95%)The
steady hand outputs with a digital codec and maybe thats why it helps so much.

JJK

JJKizak wrote on 5/2/2003, 9:54 AM

Fixed the problem. V-3 still partially uninstalled and Pluginpac frameserver
installed on V-3. Removed V-3 and removed SOFO setup files. (there were a lot)
Re-installed Pluginpac frameserver on V-4.0b. Results:

1. The 1995 wedding video had no judder with VBR or CBR or Frame serve to CCE.
2. The Beta SP to Mini DV (16mm film) was ok in VBR and CBR and after processing
with Steady cam it was almost perfect. (used Steady cam prior to MPEG2 coding.)

Once again I have to pull my size 12 foot out of my mouth. Very painfull.

JJK