just a question: whats the difference between Vegas Video and Cool edit pro multitrack? (besides the video stuff)

Jacose wrote on 11/29/2002, 4:13 AM
I was just wondering this question...

Cool edit has envelopes, just like vegas video, Direct X fx, send and insert, timestreching and looping, MIDI file support (although this is in its baby stages and it does not support virtual instruments...)
Built in FX,

What does vegas video have that cool edit doesnt?

just wondering....

Comments

Rednroll wrote on 12/1/2002, 12:57 PM
I have both cool edit and Vegas video. It's actually easier to say what cool edit has over Vegas, than what Vegas has over cool edit. The main advantage Vegas has over cool edit is it's user interface. Everything is resizeable and you are able to move things out of your way to customize your work area, to your preference. I like the powerful editing feature better in Vegas also. Vegas's best feature to me, was that you now can add CD tracks on the timeline and do CD authoring within a multi-track environment. Cool edit has other things like they're stereo editor window within Cool edit. You would need to purchase Sound Forge along with Vegas, to get this combo feature set. The main feature that I got Cool Edit was because it has audio analysis tools and a "Pink noise" generator along with a sinewave generator. Sound Forge only has a sinewave generator, no one at SF has heard of a Pink Noise generator yet I guess. I do alot of audio system analysis and this feature alone, made it worth getting cool edit pro.

Recently, I noticed the lag in audio meter response in the track FX meters in Vegas. Sonic Foundry, basically said this is due to the nature of DX developement, and wasn't something they could fix. I also noticed that not only are the Track fX meters not responsive enough, but are -3dB inaccurate. Opening the same Track FX in Cool Edit Pro, playing the same audio gave me a responsive track FX meter along with the correct reading....something SF said couldn't be done. So I guess if you consider having inaccurate, non responsive meters a feature, then this is another thing that Vegas has over cool edit.

Overall, I like working in Vegas better, but that might just be my preference because I'm use to it's UI and just recently got Cool Edit Pro 2.0. Cool Edit has a hardware control surface also, which Vegas doesn't.
Jacose wrote on 12/2/2002, 12:31 AM
well, the one thing that keeps me from using cool edit totally is the envelopes in vegas.... theyre just so dang easy to pull down!!!
bgc wrote on 12/4/2002, 12:34 PM
You could use the white noise generator and filter it using a lowpass with 3dB/octave roll-off (using the def. of pink noise):

White noise is a sound that contains every frequency within the range of human hearing (generally from 20 hertz to 20 kHz) in equal amounts. Most people perceive this sound as having more high-frequency content than low, but this is not the case. This perception occurs because each successive octave has twice as many frequencies as the one preceding it. For example, from 100 Hz to 200 Hz, there are one hundred discrete frequencies. In the next octave (from 200 Hz to 400 Hz), there are two hundred frequencies.
Pink noise is a variant of white noise. Pink noise is white noise that has been filtered to reduce the volume at each octave. This is done to compensate for the increase in the number of frequencies per octave. Each octave is reduced by 3 decibels, resulting in a noise sound wave that has equal energy at every octave.
Jacose wrote on 12/4/2002, 3:36 PM
plz explain how you use pink noise a little more in depth if you could, it sounds interesting!
bgc wrote on 12/4/2002, 4:58 PM
Here's a nice concise definition/usage I copied from the web:
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For audio testing, a pink noise source is an invaluable tool. It is essentially a flat frequency response noise source, and will quickly show any anomolies in speaker systems, room acoustics and crossover networks.

White noise (the sound you hear when a TV is tuned to a non-existent station) has a frequency characteristic which raises the power level by 3dB with each increasing octave, and is not suitable for response testing (and will probably blow your tweeters as well). By combining a 3dB / octave filter and a white noise source, we can get a very good approximation to "perfect" pink noise, where the power in the octave (for example) 40 to 80Hz is exactly the same as in the octave 10kHz to 20kHz.
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Pink noise is a great way to compare say a set of speakers. If you play pink noise through one and then the other you can compare the overall timbre. Also pink noise is used to equalize or "tune" rooms. As pink noise from a flat source should be flat in the room, you can equalize the equipment to have a flat frequency response room.
Rednroll wrote on 12/4/2002, 6:29 PM
"plz explain how you use pink noise a little more in depth if you could, it sounds interesting!"

I work for Harman International in the automotive group. Harman, supplies premium audio systems too Porshe, BMW, Audi, Lexus, Toyota, Chrysler, and Hundai to name a few. We tune every sound system to the particular vehicle. As mentioned Pink noise puts an equal amount of energy at all frequencies in the audio spectrum. Thus, if you look at it on a RTA frequency spectrum, you will see a flat line across the graph. This is what is meant when you see the term "flat response" of an audio system...ie the audio system does not add or subtract any frequencies when you play audio back through it. So if you play pink noise through it and take a spectrum analysis of it, it will still be flat.

We first start tuning a vehicles audio system, by playing back pink noise. We use a calibrated microphone array and measure the frequency response of the Pink Noise playing back through the system. You can easily find problem frequency areas within the vehicle this way. We then tune the vehicle using EQ to remove these problem frequency areas. Note...we do not tune the vehicle to have a flat response though. A flat response system does not sound very enjoyable. We have response curves that we have learned through experience that are more enjoyable to the listener and taylored to the vehicles targeted buyer. In other words we don't tune the BMW S series system to have the same sound as a Toyota Solara. Once we elliminate the troubled frequency areas, this is kinda like the baseline starting point. From there we use our ears and listen to many music sources to tweak the system. There are many challenges involved in tuning a vehicle, because you don't have the luxuary of placing the speakers wherever you choose, pointing in the direction you want and there are many reflective surfaces like glass, so this will create many problem frequency areas. You wouldn't believe what a difference of adding a map pocket on the door next to your door speakers can do to the frequency curves.

Harman's consumer group does a similar process for setting up Movie, and Home theatre systems for your house. Harman setup Ron Howard's house with a recording studio, so he could work at home and the first movie mixed there was Apollo 13 which ended up winning an academy award for best sound.

We also use Pink Noise for other things the consumer shouldn't have to worry about. Like when you've been jamming your audio system at vol=11 (ie spinal tap) for 2 hours straight, you shouldn't have to worry about the amplifier getting so hot it catches the interior of your vehicle on fire. So we will take pink noise and compress it, to an extreme cass, of like -6dB RMS/VU and play it over the audio system for about 12 hours and do thermal tests on it, to see how hot it will get. We use pink noise because it contains every frequency of the audio spectrum, thus it will represent the worst case scenario of any music. We also use sinewaves, because that is really the extreme case of a loud audio source. A sinewave will have a -3dB RMS level, but really isn't representative of what people listen too.
Cold wrote on 12/5/2002, 12:31 PM
Sorry to stay off topic, But I'm curious what software people are using for Do it yourself control room eq/acoustic treatment? Red, I'm guessing you do this without software as I have (but I don't set up rooms/cars for a day job), but I would be curious to see my rooms issues through some specialized software. Steve
Caruso wrote on 12/8/2002, 2:44 PM
Just curious. When you tune a vehicle's sound system in this way, do you make the adjustments when the car's engine is off, idling, or when the car is in motion (on a relatively smooth pavement, rough pavement, etc.).

I wouldn't necessarily assume that the most faithful audio reproduction would be the best for a car, given all the road noise inherent in a typical driving environment. Do you try to anticipate and compensate for that or not?

Just curious.

Caruso
Rednroll wrote on 12/8/2002, 4:04 PM
Most of this work is done with the car engine off. We then take it on a test track and re-evaluate it while driving, and make further adjustments while driving on a test track. Most of the time you lose a lot of low-end due to road noise. So the lowend will have to be brought up, a bit during the driving evaluations. Most of our systems have "ASL"(Automatic Sound Levelizer) on the amplifier. This is a feature that can be turned ON or OFF on the head unit. The amplifier has a circuit on it, which detects how fast the vehicle is going and will add low-end to compensate for the road noise. This is another part of the tuning we do, when evaluating the system on the test track, we have to make a decision of how much low-end to add at particular speeds, to make it nearly undetectable for the listener and what bass frequencies to boast to compansate for the road noise.

Not all of our customers want ASL, so we usually have to make some sort of compromise with systems that don't, where it will probably sound like there is too much bass in the system if you are parked, and sound more enjoyable when you are driving....but that's a good use of the bass tone control on the radio then if you're just sitting there listening to the audio system.

For the previous post, I have used "RPG's Room Optimizer" by RPG Diffusser Systems Inc. in the past for my studio rooms I've set up. Most of the time, I'll use what's known as the mirror method. This is where you put a mirror paralel to your speakers and see where on the wall will the direct sound hit and thus reflect. Then I add some absorbant material at that location, to cut down on the reflections. A bass trap setup in a corner is always a good idea too.
AnthonyJarrah wrote on 12/10/2002, 8:41 AM
Cool Edit Pro is a multitrack recorder and editor. Vegas + Soundforge = Cool Edit Pro. If you own both you have a great package, but if you can only afford one, then Cool Edit is the way to go.