Kissing your sister

vitalforce wrote on 6/19/2006, 12:31 PM
I'm about to relocate to the L.A. area from NYC in the Fall, and will be pursuing a little freelance work in editing among other things. I have been advised (warned) to take Avid classes even though I'd be using Vegas most of the time on a given job, when no one was looking....

How much clout does one gain in being able to say he's Avid certified, and how much $acrifice is involved at successive levels of certification?

I'd ask this on an Avid forum but all I'd get are sales pitches.

Not fun asking about acquiring Avid skills when I know Vegas. It's kind of like kissing your sister. It's necessary but the thrill just ain't there.
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Comments

p@mast3rs wrote on 6/19/2006, 12:40 PM
"It's kind of like kissing your sister. It's necessary but the thrill just ain't there. "

I hear in Tennessee its not only necessary but its state law. <grin>
jrazz wrote on 6/19/2006, 12:52 PM
Patrick, that's a cheap shot! :)
By the way, I think you mean Kentucky.

j razz
p@mast3rs wrote on 6/19/2006, 1:05 PM
Nah, I lived in KY. Im definitely sure it was TN. Glad you took as I was joking. No offense to those from TN.
Jayster wrote on 6/19/2006, 1:48 PM
If anyone want to kiss MY sister, they are free and welcome to do so. (Oops, I don't have a sister. Closest I ever had to a sister was a dog, and she'll kiss anybody).

I wonder what does "freelance editing" mean? Does it mean working as a contractor in somebody's shop, where they might dictate what tools you use and have you store all the files on their server? Or does it mean sitting at home in boxer shorts editing where nobody cares about anything except the final end result?
p@mast3rs wrote on 6/19/2006, 2:03 PM
Freelance as in working on your own and not for some company. Pay is generally better but you have to find your own work.
jaydeeee wrote on 6/19/2006, 2:03 PM
Oh man, just hit any one of the Avid forums.

I personally can't stand AVID in comparison to veg. Sounds like a PITA, but who says "take classes"?
They're nuts...don't pay for that. Make a solid portfolio of work - that's what's gonna speak. Just like any artist, only time, experience, and contacts are going to propell you, not a cert. (although it may get in certain doors - what those are can range from hellish to ok I suppose).
Got to get a name man, especially in that godforsaken sh*thole of a city (sorry - overall, it is to me. I only go there if I have to).

If I were going to L.A. (I'd first make sure to make the flight back out ;)...or NOT live in the heart of the city), then I'd make all the contacts and line up work( how?: beat and meet on the street and underbid a bit for a while, sorry)...and then show them what you do with vegas (providing you can/will supply all the formats,etc they may want). Most will never ask if you're good.

That is, unless you've already lined up a position requiring Avid cert. In which case you prob shouldn't be doing it blind (but good luck).
* If i had a nickel for everytime I or anybody I know frigged a lie to get an "in" and learned later, I'd never need the clients.
winrockpost wrote on 6/19/2006, 2:39 PM
I can't tell you what a cert is worth, but i can tell you that you can take AVID classes for 1k a pop,2-3 days not including hotel ,meals ,coffee or a bagel and unless you have an AVID system to use, it aint going to much help... use it or lose it.
I am a "certified "AVID editor, and a several times a year for one reason or another i have to rent a system , the first three or four hours I am on the system i do about 20 minutes of work,,, just trying to get familiar again. So if you are going to market yourself as an AVID editor cert or not, have a system or you will be a fumbling mess on the interview. my 2 cents
vitalforce wrote on 6/19/2006, 3:36 PM
Good advice all and thanks. (I thought it was West Virginia.)

By freelance I just meant stirring up my own clientele, some of them being the people making indies on the fringes of the big studios, and by L.A. I meant the area of Burbank/Glendale. Moving there because my wife is an actress and has decided after a lot of study and work in NYC, she'd like to get paid for her work for a change.... P.S. My wife is the connection to the (lower budget) indie-makers, not me.

I've noticed, at least in NYC, everyone involved in production or post on an indie film (short or long) either talks Avid or FCP, and the Avid folks secretly shake their heads about FCP. Just amazing. But Avid's hard-wired into the industry. It's like why lawyers wear suits and ties: Because lawyers wear suits and ties.

I do have a starter portfolio to offer and when I read the portfolio advice I smacked my forehead and said, "Of course, duh!--That's what I ask for when I hire a sound guy--his reel, not his NLE." So simple and yet, so simple.

And I already cleared through the wife, the possible need for at least Avid ExpressDV Pro on a system in L.A.--I mean Burbank. No question with an NLE like that you have to keep on it consistently or memory will fade.

Thanks again for the input.
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filmy wrote on 6/19/2006, 4:39 PM
Saddly Avid is sort of the "thing". I have told a few Avid related stories but will repeat a few of them. I was hired to cut a campaign for a news outlet in the Bay Area and I was cutting with D/Vision at the time. So the producer and the head guy come down from the Bay Area to see what I have cut. The main guy kept asking "But where are the bins???" over and over. At the end of the session I asked if they needed an audio only EDL for the sound layback. They assured me "no, just the picture". Against my better judgement I gave the client what they wanted. About a week later I get asked to go back in, make a few changes PLUS dump out an audio only EDL. Not really a big thing but the Avid comes into play here - they didn't want to work with me anymore, not because of the editing, They loved it. But the head guy at the station got all freaked out and on the flight back from Burbank to the Bay area he kept going on about how unprofessional it was and how afraid he was the final cut was going to be really poor - because I was not using an Avid. That is why he kept asking about the bins. So for the simple reason he could not see any bins he thought the actual edit was going to be poor and because I was not cutting on an Avid I was not pro enough for them.

Back on the East Coast I worked with a "level 3 certified Avid Editor" but they could not edit their way out of a brown paper bag. Actually, technicaly, I did not work "with" but worked "for", this person. I lasted for a little over a year before I simply could not take it anymore and left. The studio did not use Avid first of all. We had a Trinity system and they did not even use it for editing, only live switching. For Editing they used tape to tape. And even that I had had years and years of expericence with. The reason this person go the job is that they happened to know the person who was leaving and they knew Avid (I found out later that they were actually ready to hire me but this "level 3 certified Avid Editor" was available so they went with them). This person was really a bartender in Manhattan and had worked a few PA jobs in the Art Department of some indy films. But they were "level 3 certified" with Avid and took evey free second to brag about it. They even had their "portfolio" at work which included the Avid training certificates. (Nobody but me found it odd there was very little editing work listed in the "portfolio" and they person had no reel)

Now the saving grace with Hollywood, Ca is that everyone flocks there. Meaning a few things - there is lots of work but there is also lots of competition. As a freelance editor you should know how to cut on any system because they are out there. Knowing Avid is a plus, but in all my years of cutting I have never ever cut a full project on any flavor of an Avid. And in a way that was sort of what was good about EDL's and offline - you could cut on almost anything as long as it output a valid EDL and master it with an Avid. That is not so true anymore because of things like DI's and, more or less, staying in the digital relm from start to finish "offiline/online" is becoming a thing of the past.

IMO if you edit well you will find work no matter what system you cut on. If you want to just work all the time you will be able to do that in Hollywood. I would actualy recomend picking up a copy of the Hollywood and the Valley editions of the Recycler and scan the editing ads. Wouldn't hurt to get to know all those places because people are in and out of them all the time and as a freelancer you can certianly go in and use their gear to edit.

EDIT - some spelling.
eyethoughtso wrote on 6/19/2006, 9:27 PM
Good story. What is IMO and EDL
p@mast3rs wrote on 6/19/2006, 9:44 PM
In my opinion and edit decision list
eyethoughtso wrote on 6/19/2006, 10:00 PM
I agree with you filmy. I play keyboards in a Latin Jazz group. It don't matter if it's a new keyboard, old, piano, organ, or synth. If you play well you'll always be working. No matter what kind of instrument you are using. Same with a painter. If it's chalk, markers, paint, crayons or magic markers. If you are good, you're good.

So, IMO (thanks p@mast3rs) if you edit well your work will show and you will show your work.
vitalforce wrote on 6/20/2006, 8:53 AM
filmy, thanks for the words of wisdom. Your reality check was what I guess I was really asking for, I just didn't know how to ask it.

Although I ask about serious editing gigs, I'm actually a crazy lawyer. Litigating in NYC for about 20 years but increasingly 'returning' to my first loves of writing/directing/editing in recent years; crazy because I'm about to chuck law practice, salary and all, and move West to do per diem mediation, etc., thus the reaching out for feedback. Doing this mainly for the wife, the actress, who I believe in and will do well in Hollywood (Burbank), but it's also an opportunity for me.

Sorry about that digression but now that I've posted it here, you won't have to listen to it if I should bump into you out West. Instead, I'll buy you coffee--or book you for a gig if the chance arises. And I mean that.
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