L cut, J cut fans read up. Hidden Vegas behavior to the rescue

johnmeyer wrote on 9/24/2004, 11:25 AM
I decided to write a script to help with "L" and "J" cuts. Before I did, I went back and re-read this thread:

"L" and "J" cuts/edits? Making THEM Faster?

I looked at some of the suggestions and then started playing around on the timeline, trying to figure out how scripts could help when I stumbled over an amazing behavior:

You can get Vegas into a state where it lets you trim the audio without affecting the video, but still have the audio and video grouped together so that they stay in sync, and so that you can move them along the timeline together!

This is exactly what you need to do L and J cuts. It's all there, but it is simply not documented. Here's how you do it. Because there are still a few steps involved to get Vegas into the state where it will do this, I will still probably write a script so you can reduce this to one keystroke.

Here goes.

1. Drag a few AVI files into a new project. This will give you a video and audio track.

2. Click on a video event (or an audio event, it doesn't matter).

3. Press the "U" key to ungroup the selected event.

4. Click on either edge of the selected event and drag the edge so as to make the event shorter.

5. Press and hold the Ctrl key and click on the audio event (or video event if you selected audio in step 2).

6. Press the "G" key to re-group the two events.

OK, that's a lot of keystrokes (which is why I still want to write a script), but now comes the fun, oh my gosh I didn't know Vegas could do this part:

Go ahead and click on either the audio or video event and drag it to the left or right. No surprise, they both move together. However, here comes the good part: Click on the edge of the event you made shorter (the video in my example) and shorten or lengthen it.

Whoa!!

It gets shorter or longer without any change made in the associate audio (or video) event. You can also do the same for the audio event.

If you drag the opposite edge (the one you didn't change), both events still get trimmed together.

Thus, once you get the events into this state, you have exactly the behavior you need for J and L cuts.

P.S. I just went back to Vegas 4.0d and tried this, and it works there as well.

Comments

HPV wrote on 9/24/2004, 11:42 AM
Wooh, good going John. This is sooooo cool. Thanks
Craig H.
je@on wrote on 9/24/2004, 12:19 PM
Just be sure ripple is toggled off.
apit34356 wrote on 9/24/2004, 12:32 PM
excellent! great imvestigating. Been doing video and audio this way but never used the "g" for re-syn and trimming with any pattern! good work!
johnmeyer wrote on 9/24/2004, 12:54 PM
I've got the script up and running. You ain't seen nothing yet until you use the script. One keystroke and you have either an L or J cut. I'll post it later today, and hopefully get it on Sundance as well.

As far as I am concerned, as of this moment, Vegas has full L and J cut editing.

Good point about the ripple edit mode.
Grazie wrote on 9/24/2004, 1:41 PM
I've gotta go to bed! ! ! AND you do THIS?!* ^%?!

. . it'll be there in the morning .. nite!

Grazie
johnmeyer wrote on 9/24/2004, 1:42 PM
OK, here's the link to the script, over in the script forum:

L and J Cut Script

I'll upload it to Sundance and post a link in this thread when it is available there.
jetdv wrote on 9/24/2004, 6:32 PM
All 4 of John Meyer's new scripts can now be downloaded from here.
Catwell wrote on 9/24/2004, 8:45 PM
Thanks for tthe scripts, and thanks to jetdv for the hosting. I just ran the J&L script and it is really a time saver. You are most generous.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/24/2004, 10:17 PM
Actually, all you have to do is press Ignore Event Grouping (Ctrl-Shift-U) and make your L or J cut. Then press Ctrl-Shift-U again and you’re all set. Vegas has always worked this way. No need to group and ungroup; just ignore grouping for the cut. Not to take away from the script, but it was never 6 steps. Just one button that’s already on the toolbar.

~jr
johnmeyer wrote on 9/24/2004, 11:23 PM
Actually, all you have to do is press Ignore Event Grouping (Ctrl-Shift-U) and make your L or J cut.

You can certainly make L and J cuts this way, and this technique was discussed in the thread I referenced in my first post above. However, there is a very important -- no, make that an extremely important -- difference between doing it this way and doing it with the script: Once you ungroup, you can accidentally move the audio or video event and if you do, you lose audio sync.

The incredible "discovery" is that by NOT playing with the grouping, you can get Vegas into a state where the audio and video remain locked (you can grab either the video and move it, and the audio will follow, or vice versa), yet you can still trim the ends of either the audio or video independently of the other. It is exactly what you want in order to do J & L cuts without the risk of losing audio sync.

Having said all that, perhaps what you meant is that you can ignore event grouping, trim the video a bit, then un-ignore event grouping, and you have everything in the state I describe above, but with fewer steps than I outlined in my first post. However, it is still quite a few steps, and you have to do it for both the event before and the event after the cut, and remember to un-ignore event grouping.

The script is one button press, and no chance of error. At my age, I screw up a lot, and I like tools that automate repetitive processes.
Grazie wrote on 9/25/2004, 1:14 AM
'Morning Lads! - Wide awake in London here . . well, almost awake . .. first 'cuppa in hand .. will download .. fire up the MONSTA! and give your script the Grazie-Idiot's test . .. Haaha!

Grazie
Grazie wrote on 9/25/2004, 1:45 AM
Ho! The Grazie-Idiot test is doing very well today at the Match! - JM? I'm not getting it . . yet . .

Grazie
mikeo wrote on 9/25/2004, 3:38 AM
"Once you ungroup, you can accidentally move the audio or video event and if you do, you lose audio sync. "

Not if you just grab the edge of one video or one audio event like you should. I agree with johhnyroy, click on Ignore event grouping in the toolbar, drag one video (or one audio) and the close the gap with the other event in the same manner. Then unclick Ignore event grouping. Click, drag, drag, click. The audio waveform in the timeline and the video preview makes it real simple to decide what to do.

Your script is nice and it works, but it does take time to launch it and it takes time to perform its task. I find it just as fast and easy the other way. Besides, your script does the split for a set amount and I have never made L or J cuts always the same. The audio or the video dictates when and how.

MO
JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/25/2004, 7:50 AM
> Once you ungroup, you can accidentally move the audio or video event and if you do, you lose audio sync.

I agree there is that potential for error. I only point this out because have a script that does this but I never shared it because I thought it wasn’t that helpful since all you need to do is push a toolbar button to get the same effect. I didn’t consider that you could also make a mistake and move the video and audio out of sync which makes the script a safer method.

~jr
Spot|DSE wrote on 9/25/2004, 9:02 AM
John, Thanks for putting them on the VASST site, I just played with them this morning. I can see how they can be a nice timesaver, depending on your workflow.
Get John's new scripts at the VASST Script pages
BrianStanding wrote on 9/26/2004, 4:55 PM
John

I get an "object reference not set to an instance of an object" whenever I run the script. Moving the video at the end of the event works as it should, but the script seems to have no effect whatsoever on the head of the event.

Video track is selected, cursor is over event.

Also, how do I turn it off again to get back to Vegas default behavior?
BrianStanding wrote on 9/26/2004, 5:13 PM
OK, after doing further experimenting, I find that using the "Ignore Event Grouping" command has the same effect as "Ungroup" in johnmeyer's post above. Try this:

1. Put an AVI file on the timeline
2. Turn "Ignore Event Grouping" on
3. Resize the edge video portion of the event
4. Turn "Ignore Event Grouping" back off

(This is pretty easy if you've remapped your keyboard to use the "U" key for "Ignore Event Grouping.") Once the edges of the video and audio pair do not match, you can move the video edge independently of its audio pair EVEN IF "IGNORE EVENT GROUPING" IS OFF. Grabbing the middle of the event moves both in tandem. (This is, I think, the essence of John's amazing discovery!) If you extend the video until it meets the audio edge, both edges move in tandem again. This works very nicely if you have two events side-by-side and use the "Ctrl-Alt" mouse drag to trim adjacent edges together.

If nothing else, this should shorten down the commands in your script, John. Now, I just need a script to remind me to turn "ignore event grouping" back OFF....

By the way, great detective work, John!
johnmeyer wrote on 9/26/2004, 7:26 PM
OK, after doing further experimenting, I find that using the "Ignore Event Grouping" command has the same effect as "Ungroup" in johnmeyer's post above

Yup. That's exactly what I described in my last post above (the 11:23:12 pm post) in response to someone's suggestion that this required fewer steps than what I described in my initial post (and it is certainly easier). Of course, the script is FAR easier than doing the whole thing manually.

I get an "object reference not set to an instance of an object" whenever I run the script.

Apparently this is a known bug in Vegas 5.0b that is cured by updating to DVD Architect 2.0a. There is also a temporary workaround for those not wanting to update to DVDA 2.0a, or who don't have DVDA. The king of scripts, jetdv, describes it all in this thread:

Correct Object Reference Problem
BrianStanding wrote on 9/27/2004, 6:36 AM
OK, I'm an idiot. Didn't read the post above carefully enough. Thanks for the link to the fix for the scripting bug.

I'll upgrade my DVDA installation now....
rmack350 wrote on 9/27/2004, 7:43 AM
Now, I just need a script to remind me to turn "ignore event grouping" back OFF...

This should have been dealt with looong ago in Vegas. You need a "dead man's" key that ignores event grouping on keydown and the turns it back on on keyup.

Rob Mack