You would need to make the freeze frames MENUS that you link to from the videos. When the question is needed, the teacher would hit the enter key which would advance to the next menu. Using hidden buttons, you could do this transparently, but it will take some programming. and I believe you are limited to 99 menus.

Dave T2

Very sorry PeterDuke, brain lapse. Yes, I did read those. Unfortunately, I think I must have been a bit unclear then (and maybe now?) as the replies did not really fit the situation. The original laserdisc program had no code whatsoever. It simply made use of the frame stop,chapter stop, and search functions. The original developers would like to keep to that structure. The beauty is that no computer is needed, just the player. So, no Toolkit, no Powerpoint, just vids and menus.

Is DVDA really limited to 99 menus? If so, I will need to switch to something like DVD Studio (limit of 10,000 menus). Sigh.

Dont know what you are talking DVDStudio? what's that.
The previous thread made strong points for you. A Laserdisc was made with a certain programming protocol - whether you want to admit that or not. Please realize you are talking apples to oranges when you speak Laserdisc and DVD protocols in the same breath.

Oops, I think I misspoke. DVD titles are limited, menus may not be.

Dave T2

I produced quite a few interactive laserdisc programs (meaning I produced the scripts, supervised video production, set the frame and chapter stops, and then turned it over to Pioneer to master). (BTW- for those who know what I mean, these obviously were CAV not CLV discs.) The resulting discs ran on a basic player with no computer attached. All frames were numbered consecutively and any frame could have a chapter number assigned to it. Laserdisc players had the ability to 'search' for a specific frame or chapter and any frame (incl. frames with a chapter number) could be set as 'stop' frames. Thus the program could stop and ask the user to 'jump' (via search) to any point on the disc.

At no time was a computer used in production or end use (altho we did start using non-linear editing systems when they came out). No computer, no programming protocol, no??? And yes, the apples to oranges is exactly the problem. They developers want their program to run from a stand alone DVD player just like it did on laserdisc players. I've done a number of DVD programs but this one is really really complicated.

(DVD Studio Pro is the Mac DVD authoring app. I used to do most of my work on Macs before Vegas came out and got really good.)

As I have stated, and tried to make the point...Laserdisc was a specific kind of protocol with features embedded into it - as you speak for example -numbering of frames - yes, before desktop computers, but we could hook-up links to hardwired processors that could be written into instructional sets.

This kind of programming became easier with software and as was known as the multi-media software period of a/v controllers. We could control slide projectors, videotape machines, and laserdisc units - often times for instructional purposes and also widely used in exhibit developed for the World's Fair etc.

A DVD produced by Mac or PC is something different - it's usage in essence is greatly simplified to be exhibition of linear video segments.

I respectfully disagree with the use of the word protocol but maybe we actually mean similar things. I really have no desire to debate or quibble. And yes, you could (and I did on many projects but not the type I am working on now) use hook ups to external processors. I also did a lot of programming for PC/Mac control of laserdiscs (esp. with touchscreens).

However, this program was designed to use only the basic feature set of stand-alone consumer-level laserdisc players (stop and search). All the teacher needed was the disc and cheap player. We are trying to make this program work with just a DVD and a cheap DVD player. That is what I am seeking help with.

I have never tried to make a DVD perform like this and see no way to make it do so without inserting a menu page for every question graphic and every answer graphic (and there are hundreds). Might there be a more efficient way? Perhaps using scripting? (Never having use DVD scripting I know nothing about it except what a few minutes googling revealed.)

There may be a maximum number of "menu" pages per title, such as 99, but you can have many (99?) titles. You might get extra help on forums such as Doom9, which deal with nitty gritty issues like these.

What you are trying to do is non-standard, so don't expect that there will be an easy or straight forward solution, or any "tidy" solution at all, for that matter.

>I have never tried to make a DVD perform like this and see no way to make it do so

DVD was a giant step BACKWARD from Laserdisc for use-ability (and Blu-ray is even worse). I don't know how to help you except maybe to suggest you look at the Laserdisc of Joe Kane's for tuning a home theater (don't have it handy--Video Essentials? I forget) and then his DVD "update" of that. He had just a horrible time as evidenced by the many delays in getting the DVD out, and of course the DVD sucks by comparison to the LD as far as navigation.

Good luck to you though if you do decide to try.

The basic laserdisc player was a computer, of sorts anyway. It ran an embedded software system that interpreted and processed the data and instructions encoded on the disc.

DVD players, BluRay players, DAT players, MP3 players ... all operate this way.

I do remember the frame-by-frame of the laserdisc players. Our art room had a selection of "museum" discs. Each one had about 15,000 classic paintings on it and we could scan through all the images one frame at a time, or jump around by using the remote control.

DVD scripting doesn't add any capability to the DVD format, it merely allows the programmer to present a specific set of actions to the viewer in a specific way. You're still going to have to make a menu screen for each and every question and answer. There's no other way to do this with a DVD. Anything else you try to do will simply result in a free-running series of pictures (frames) that will go by without pausing for the user to press a button.

The idea to create this as a powerpoint slide show and convert that to DVD is a good one.

The other option may simply be to create it as a powerpoint slide show, burn the .pps file to discs, and have the users play it on a computer with PowerPoint installed.

+1 Chienworks - the difference between the computer processor aboard the Laserdisc and the current Blu-ray set-top player -is that it was extensible in the Laserdisc - you could in fact advantage it from outside of the confines of the manufactured box. For years I hoped that the DVD/Blu-ray generation would bring this back. BUT ALAS, it's all become proprietary firmware aboard the manufacturer of the set-top player - TOO BAD and SAD!

As I indicated in the original thread, and Chienworks -alludes to - the professional way to handle this is to create a mixed moded DVD/DVD-Rom or BD/Bd-ROM where there is not only a video set component, but you can introduce interactive components as well.

I still use Multi-Media Toolbook programming language to do this (creater Microsoft Paul Allen) but you could use any number of tools including PowerPoint, other programming languages, and by golly even Professional Adobe Acrobat to create multi-interactive pages riding on the ROM portion of the disc.

Thanks for the info and suggestions. It needs to be DVD not BD. Never having worked with mixed mode discs (unless that simply means having extra files such as pdfs on the same disc), can a simple player display "multi-interactive pages riding on the ROM portion of the disc"? I've never heard of such a thing. (Remember that a basic goal here is NO computer attached.) I do have Acrobat Pro so I guess I could try it.

On the other hand, has anyone tried DVD Lab Pro? They claim interesting effects, like delayed buttons that might help this project.

DVD Lab Pro by Mediachance out of Canada is a good product that has gone cold. In this day it has ancient and weird interface that will seem very dated. The original developer has long since abandoned work with it. From a modern standpoint, it was left behind in the Blu-ray revolution of five years ago in authoring tools.

From the DVD standard - mixed mode discs are discs that are created to be read by a DVD-ROM device (read that PC connected) to access the special features. What the mixed-mode offers the customer is a video play concept on a set-top player, but can access the extended features by moving the disc to a DVD-RoM reader. From the authoring standpoint you have the ability to create informational menus within your standard video display format that invite and encourage the customer to make the switch to play on a DVD-rom device for this access.

EXAMPLE: I produce a mixed mode disc that has a conventional menu series with videos. During the video segments, the customer has the opportunity to switch to one of two subtitle tracks. One subtitle track has some brief bits of info. Switching to subtitle track two for the same video allows a different but more info view. And finally embedded in the video are little teasers, like the broadcast network watermarks that pop-up on TV. When the customer views the video play and sees the pop-up - he knows that this is an alert that even more complete information can be accessed (via DVD-ROM reader) through embedded .pdf multi-media files.

Thanks. I suspected that by 'mixed mode' you meant "needs a PC" so that avenue is out for now. (And Toobook eventually got picked up by Sumtotal, no?) If I am going back to programming this to run on a PC, I might try it as I really do not want to go back to full-time coding in my supposed 'retirement'. (Most of our early stuff - circa 1980-90) was done with Macs and SuperCard. When we went to the PC we pretty much did most things with Delphi (Pascal) and in an inhouse authoring system. Yes, DVD Lab looks pretty dated but it seems to have some features (as well as bugs) missing from DVDA. If this really needs to be done as a DVD and stand-alone player, is DVDA the best choice?

"If this really needs to be done as a DVD and stand-alone player, is DVDA the best choice?"

I don't think you have spelt out exactly what you are going to do. Until you do, talk of programming and authoring tools is premature.

The key is that you wish to do something that is not within the DVD specification. Until you say how you are going to get around that problem, you can't proceed.

PeterDuke - Do you know if there is any limit on the number of pages a menu can have? If the number is at least very high, for a long slide show, like you mentioned in a previous post, it seems that putting each slide in as a background, with just Forward and Back buttons, would allow you to have a show where the "slides" wait for user control and take up (relatively) little space on the disc. No?

And in direct asnwer to your post, I seem to have awkwardly placed partial descriptions of what I am doing in various posts. Sorry. I have long flowcharts and a very long list of 'pieces' (i.e., still frames and vid clips) to the program. Based on performance the program branches to the appropriate segment(s). The original program took 8 CAV laserdisc sides and has 35 lessons. The first lesson has about 200 pieces (and the average, per lesson, is about 150).

I am sure that there would be a limit on the number of pages, but I don't know what it is.

I created a menu in DVDA and did Alt I P (insert page) 130 times and it created 130 menu pages, so it is more than 99 anyhow.

Incidentally, if there is a main menu, and the slide show is a submenu, then there will forward, back and up buttons.

To answer my question on your strategy, it seems that you are now planning to use menu pages for your slideshow. So to answer your question, DVDA is probably as good as any other for that job, but not having tried to do it with others, I couldn't say for sure. I suggest that you experiment and tell us.

I see that you have video as well as slides. Menus can have videos as background. I don't know what restrictions there are for DVDA, but normally, the video is a few seconds long and then repeats. I don't normally use motion menu backgrounds.

You may be interested in this discussion of menu looping with Adobe Encore:

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/encore/cs/using/WSF49EA5DB-3743-49c2-9831-F66328B192F8.html#WSAC740C6D-83DE-489e-8B15-5A816A3019C7

Update: Using multiple menu pages, with the stillframes (series of single frames, much like slides) as backgrounds, works beautifully. The DVD now emulates the laserdisc almost perfectly. If you ever wanted a slideshow that does not automatically advance (incl. slides mixed with videos), this approach works well.

The only problem so far (and it is relatively minor) is that "Menu" on the remote does not jump back to a root menu. It is not easy to 'go off the tracks' when using the program but it is not easy to jump around for checking purposes either. The old laserdisc allowed 'searching' directly to any chapter or frame on the disc. I do not see any way to emulate the search function.

What did you do with the menu arrow buttons on each page?

If you are using hidden buttons, here is how I did similar thing once.

Each page had 4 hidden buttons. When the link was made to the page, it would land on a button that didn't do anything.

To the right of that button was a "NEXT" link for the next page, to the left of the button was a "PREVIOUS" link fo the previous page, up from the button was a link to the Root menu. Instructions were given at the landing first page to use RIGHT, LEFT, or UP Arrow on the remote to navigate. Worked great.

Dave T2

Most stillframes have a small NEXT button (as that was how the laserdisc was setup, altho it used "STEP" to match the laserdisc remote). Dave T2's idea sounds really good, esp. for getting back to higher level menus. Thanks!

I forgot, make sure you make the buttons auto activate and you don't have to do anything but Right Left or up.

Dave T2