Latest Music Video

farss wrote on 7/1/2009, 12:05 AM

Would work better for me with less going on I thought. There's some great shots in there that stand up by themselves, doing more to them takes away from them, especially the crane shots.

Bob.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 7/1/2009, 2:24 AM

I liked the video, the lead singer bugged me for some reason, lol, don't know why, just did. Good stuff as always though

Dave

wm_b wrote on 7/1/2009, 4:59 AM

I watched the whole thing, twice. There are some great shots and the setting is awesome. I can see how you would have a great time with the location. I don't really think the video matches the song or the mix but those problems began long before the video was shot. With the sound off it's a cool location and the lighting/shots are nice. It's my opinion that this song/mix would be more fitting with an interior location. The song has to come first (subject/sonics). This location is completely upstaging everything. Too bad the song wasn't about ghosts and engine blocks or an Indian reservation or something like that. Nice work otherwise.

Cheers, BB

edit: after reading the description I can see the client wasn't the band or the label so all the stuff about serving the song is moot. Yeah, it looks like you had fun.

PeterWright wrote on 7/3/2009, 9:44 PM

Hi Ray
Nice work - I was so impressed with the look you achieved that I finally bought Magic Bullet Looks myself!
As an "experienced" MB user - do you have any tips for a rookie, and any favourite presets you tend to use?
(Any other MB users, feel free to add tips ...)

tumbleweed7 wrote on 7/3/2009, 11:35 PM

When I watched the video, I was guessing somewhere north of Laughlin, close to the Colorado river... then I read the text, & I was pretty close!... See any Big Horn?...

I'm not blowing smoke when I say your work is outstanding...

& I hope you are well compensated for it....

Laurence wrote on 7/4/2009, 7:21 AM

Outstanding work as usual.

MUTTLEY wrote on 7/4/2009, 10:50 AM

Don't like crane shots? I love crane shots! And personally I think the song matches the location perfectly! First line is "Lying besides you in a dream", that opens it up to just about anywhere. Symbolically the song is about being alone and lonely, ghost town? Makes sense to me! The line "I hate this place but I just cant leave"? C'mon! =)

Part of the fun of music videos for me is the artistic liberty and that everything doesn't have to be literal but to each their own I spose. To me it's art, and as such I spose everything is subjective so your welcome to your opinion. But I also think negative feedback on someone elses work when not asked for is kinda like tellin someone they have an ugly baby. Maybe the baby is ugly but besides making Mommy and Daddy feel bad it serves very little purpose.

Anyway! Peter, I usually start just by bouncing around the ton of presets they have and then tweak tweak tweak. Not always just within MB but also Sony color curves, saturation, etc. Some of it was also done by having the stock film clips layer above the footage with the composting mode set to "overlay". Then other cc was needed on the clips below that to compensate and give me the look I wanted.

Tumble, I'm not sure of its exact location but the town is called Nelson, NV. A little ghost town that is owned by a family that actually lives there, it was pretty amazing and they were super nice. Lot's of stuff has been shot there including "3000 Miles to Graceland".

Flattered by the kind words, always makes my day!

- Ray
Underground Planet

tumbleweed7 wrote on 7/4/2009, 7:01 PM

Never been to Nelson, but I was within a stones throw it a month ago, on our way to Vegas.... That part of the country has a very unique landscape, but extremly hot in the summer....

I believe a WWII bomber crashed in lake Mead once... I wonder if there's any connection with the one there in Nelson?... I may stop there sometime, just to get a look see....

goshep wrote on 7/4/2009, 8:36 PM

Great stuff as always. That may be my new favorite. Aside from the obvious MB shots, did you use it throughout or was that just the glorious Letus 35 and your own color correction? The color was fantastic and really did that location justice. I could almost feel the sun beating down on my neck.
Again, great stuff!

MUTTLEY wrote on 7/4/2009, 9:05 PM

Tumble, all I know is it was awesome! =)

Thanks goshep! There's a good amount that doesn't have any MB and is real close to what came out of the camera. The shots that you might can tell had the Letus35 are the ones that I didn't change to much, just loved the color. Two cameras didnt have the Letus35 and needed a little more to make it work for me. Those two also had thought they had set their PP the same as mine but turned out that two settings were wrong and looked quite a bit different, total a buzz kill. Overall though I think it turned out pretty cohesive and I'm happy with it, probably my current fav too. =)

- Ray
Underground Planet

wm_b wrote on 7/4/2009, 11:37 PM

Hey, I didn't know it was supposed to be a kissup. I thought the audio mix is wrong for the video, subject or lyrical content excluded. I'm a mixer in my day job and I'm very sensitive to mix contexts and environments. I also understand that the audio mix isn't your work. The video looks great and technically it's very cool. I would love to produce output on that level.

What you have is a performance video with little story context except that a band decided to set up in a ghost town and rock out to their song. Fine. Unfortunately the audio mix sounds like an interior and not one with a cohesive environment. I don't need a video to recreate a simulated environment but I prefer that it not contrast so much as to point it out.

I wonder if if the sonic disconnect would have bugged me as much without the full live band shots. Those are the ones where the music sounds smallest compared to picture when I'm watching the video. If the players were shot individually in their own environments, for example if the drummer had been inside an old building or something like that.

My point is that technically you kicked ass. Your video is WAY better than the mix and it's noticeable because of that. Maybe I should just shut up.

MUTTLEY wrote on 7/5/2009, 9:17 AM

Sorry if you think what I would consider "manners" to be "kissing up". When you go to a friends house do you tell em everything that's wrong with it? Walk around criticizing their decor? Do you just walk up to women and tell them they'd be hot if they just lost a little weight? When your a guest for dinner do you tell the host how the steak was overcooked and the veggies under seasoned?

When I'm just sharing my work here on the forums, that's all I'm doing, sharing. Would I rather have people say nice things than give me their critique's? Absolutely. Who wouldn't? Do you think that makes me arrogant? I'm as sensitive as the next "artist" and as I do this full time but have yet to figure out how to really make a profit I sacrifice like hell to continue doing this work. I do it because its my passion. For me half of the payoff is the few nice words I get here and there on the net, not least of all here among my peers who's opinion I hold higher regard than the random anonymous people on YouTube and the like. And yea, it sucks to put something out there that you're proud of and have people jump in and nit-pick. And like my baby analogy earlier it serves no purpose, the vids done, its out there, its beyond my control at this point. Some people DO ask for feedback and that's cool, but I myself never give advice or criticism unless someone explicitly asks for it. To me that's just etiquette. Am I a kissup for complimenting people on the things I like but withholding less flattering opinions? Am I a brown nose for just saying "Good job"? and not espousing on what could have been better?

You want to put me down and say this is a kissup, fine man, my bad. I guess the whole "If you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all" doesn't apply. Everyone here should have the right to force their unsolicited opinions on others and pump up their own ego's by telling other people whats wrong and how they would have done it better. Fair enough.

- Ray
Underground Planet

P.S. And I did hear the positive in your last and I do appreciate it, I'm only taking issue with the "kissup" statement.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/5/2009, 1:22 PM

What Ray wrote: "... would love it if ya left a comment... !"

What wm_b understood: "... would love it if ya left a critique...!"

"What we've got here is failure to communicate."

MUTTLEY wrote on 7/5/2009, 1:59 PM

lol@Jay

And to finish the quote : "would love it if ya left a comment under the vid on my new swanky site!"

Wouldn't be exactly great for business to encourage people to leave critique's about my work on my own website me thinks.

- Ray
Underground Planet

alltheseworlds wrote on 7/5/2009, 3:54 PM

After filtering all my thoughts through the "Muttley Manners Filter" all I can say is: Looks like an interesting location.

musicvid10 wrote on 7/5/2009, 6:13 PM

That's a bit cold, isn't it?

My comments, if offered, would pertain to the lead singer's vowel production and passaggio, but that's not what I think muttley was asking for here. The singer and the ensemble have a lot of potential.

I thought the camera work, editing, continuity, and audio were superb, and I have as many years behind the board as in front of it.

VanLazarus wrote on 7/5/2009, 10:21 PM

I thought the video was very well done.

Former user wrote on 7/5/2009, 10:38 PM

I actually have more gripes with the recording (WHY oh why does everyone compress the bjeebers out of vocals...ugh...I can HEAR the guy's adnoids (shakes head)).

The video is nicely done though. Good continuity (if that can ever been said about a music video), excellent camera work, and it's paces well for the anthem/ballad style song.

And let's face it...rock ballads are all about hyperbole, so you've GOT to edit that way. Nice job Mutt!

ushere wrote on 7/5/2009, 10:52 PM

thought it was a bit too busy (maybe like bob we're a bit more laid back downunder?), but that said, bloody good show. well done.

Rory Cooper wrote on 7/5/2009, 11:26 PM

Ray your work is very good I am going to shoot something similar in 3 weeks time

So I had a good sus..some shots were beautiful ,awesome tones and the hatchet lighting really good effect as well as the halo shots
Something for me to aim at, if I could get some of those shots I would be happy
I loved the guitar shots really creative and made me feel part of the scene

I noticed that when the lighting changed to right of face [ my right]and the face was on the left it cut of the depth
So I couldent focus on the focused drummer but instead kept looking at the DOF..out of focus singer
So I would have kept the lighter images on the right side of the screen keeping your eye in the scene
I would always have something in focus never have everything blurred at anypoint because then the eye is looking for something to focus on

It would be great if you shared some of you setup, film settings and mindset

Thanks
Rory

I have difficulty to stay linked to your site on my side of the link
So I commented here...i could only open this one...hope this is OK

why dont you do smaller renders of some of your clips then
us folks in darkest africa wont have link problems

wm_b wrote on 7/6/2009, 2:16 AM

This should have been my second post to this thread.

I felt I was being quite mannerly by NOT leaving it on your site.

This is a forum about video production using vegas. I thought discourse and discussion were the intent of the forum. I was complimentary about what I thought was positive and was constructive about what I thought was weak. That's not rude. My mistake was that I commented on what was ultimately directorial choice. This is a forum about editing software and not about the creative use of video.

I am sorry if I made you feel badly about your work because I have a different opinion. That was not my intent. I wanted to discuss audio contexts when combined with picture. I felt this video provided an opportunity for meaningful discussion. Please pardon the candor with which I spoke.

Good luck with all your endeavors.
Sincerely,
William.

PeterWright wrote on 7/6/2009, 2:44 AM

William,
It was nice of you to post that way, but I don't really think you have to apologise at all.

Yes, strictly speaking Vegas is for Editing, but most of us also shoot our own material, so any comments to do with shot choice and acquisition are very on topic and relevant.

Ray, as you know, you've produced yet another very impressive music video, but when you ask for comments, surely constructive criticism is ok - none of us know it all and this place is a great way of picking up tips to get even better.

You don't have to agree with anything anyone says, but I think you should respect their right to speak honestly here. No-one's saying you have an ugly baby - they're just sharing different appoaches to some aspects, and we can all learn from that process.

tumbleweed7 wrote on 7/6/2009, 8:22 AM

Well, it's like Ray said...

The vids done, it's out there, & the band was happy, to put it mildly... & no ones going to pay to recut it...

& as far as critiqueing... what some may not have thought of, is the budget for this work...
A unique setting nearby.. an already cut music bed.. using already existing gear... & I'm guessing, a band with limited resources....

Years ago, I critiqued a work done by a fellow videographer, unsolicited, that it was not up to his usual standard... the first words out of his mouth were, "that's all they had budgeted for"...

I now think twice, if not three or four times, about offering an opinion on someone elses work... but that's just me....

wm_b wrote on 7/6/2009, 3:24 PM

This is probably the last I will say on any of this.

In my own work I have had it pointed out to me that an obvious element (once pointed out) was neglected in some way. Sometimes it's impossible in the midst of a herculean task to notice everything all the time. I didn't expect him to go back and re-shoot or re-edit the video. I just think it was an artistic "miss" that could have had any number of causes.

I've had access to fantastic vintage mic's or instruments for a project that I really wanted to use. Sometimes they just don't fit the song or the artist or the style of music. Everyone on the project gets romantic and wants the precious treasure on their record. You set it up, try it out and find out later that it's not right. Sometimes you've committed to it and replacing it is impossible or difficult. When you're lucky it gets ruled out or removed from the forefront on the spot and the situation is avoided. In some rare cases the piece can completely turn everything around and a new direction is discovered that takes the material to a new height.

In the real world where there are budgets (Ray mentioned a "label" (usually=$$$) and "red tape" (usually = lawyers, usually = $$$)). I would say a remix would be appropriate for the video. It's really just a few hours of work. Just adding a little DOF to the mix would go a long way to making this video work better in my opinion. I am not going to address the song and it's strengths/problems (there are issues I have with that) but the simple psychological reaction to seeing those images and hearing those sounds is a mismatch to me.

I will stand behind my directorial criticism because I did not just say it was bad or anything like that. I offered a suggestion about how the same setting/audio mix might have worked better (imo) with a slightly different approach to shooting the band. Keeping the drummer out of that open space would allow for the sonically isolated position it has in the mix to make more sense with the image. That's just how I see and hear it. It's something I'm sensitive to and it stood out.

So I have two perspectives:

The first is that it could have been shot a little differently to better match the mix but this would have required critically listening to the mix and shooting with it in mind. It's not an outlandish situation that the environmental elements of the mix would be overlooked in preference to lyric content or imagery. It just happened that the location (think of the aforementioned precious vintage audio equipment) contained a massive psycho-acoustic component. It looked like a big open space with vast panoramic impact. The mix is highly compressed and the element (drums) with the largest frequency range distribution (panorama) is in a rather smallish sounding space. Juxtaposing the location and the sound highlights the differences to me in this particular case.

The second is that if the video imagery transformed the song to reaching a new height of communicating the message or story then a remix is fitting (and most likely cheaper). Once the mix engineer grudgingly agreed to a remix it would only take a couple hours to make the whole thing gel. Video remixes are common in the industry for the reasons I've outlined here.

I thought is was good work. I just thought it could have been better work. Like it or not, he got into bed with the mixer when he shot this video and they did have a baby. I did point out that I thought the baby looked kind of funny to me. The difference here is that it's not really a baby, it's work/art. If this is the pinnacle of his career and no attempt to top it will ever be made then I truly am sorry for everything I've said on the subject. It's not right of me to criticize someones Everest. I don't think that's the case. Ray is on his way to bigger and better things. I would love to produce images of that quality.

I do think the criticism was solicited. He publicly posted it on a forum where people discuss, consult and critique work done with Sony Vegas video editing software. He also invited comments to be posted on his website. I didn't think my comments were appropriate for a "store front" environment but I do not think it was out of context for a discussion forum that has more of a "cutting room" flavor. This is shop talk and fair game. I wanted some insight from the person who made the video about the decision making process.

Sincerely,
William