Let's set up a single thread for 8.1 bugs!

megabit wrote on 9/14/2008, 12:46 AM

OK, bugs will be eliminated (hopefully) - but I'm more concerned about close to none performance gains the 8.1 brings... The only thing really better is the possibility to set your RAM preview buffer to as high as your physical RAM allows - but frankly, to really make use of it, even 8 GB is not enough (as expected with HD).

Other than that, I really don't see any performance advantages with my Quad; is it really necessary to double the number of cores to unleash the 64bit application potential?

farss wrote on 9/14/2008, 1:30 AM

"is it really necessary to double the number of cores to unleash the 64bit application potential? "

What 64bit application potential?
The CPU cannot calculate numbers any faster simply because it can address more RAM!

Bob.

megabit wrote on 9/14/2008, 1:55 AM

I'm no architecture specialist, Bob, but more efficient memory and threading management is always mentioned in the context of 64 vs 32bit performance.

Also, jrazz (running 8.1 on an 8-core machine) reports cutting render times by half (no change when limiting number of threads to 4, though).

farss wrote on 9/14/2008, 3:36 AM

In what context though?
Anything that avoids paging RAM is obviously going to make a dramatic improvement however processing video is a pretty unique task. It is not the same as rendering CGI or application servers from what I can see. Unless what you're reading specifically relates to the task of moving very large amounts of data and performing complex calculations on it then you could easily be misled.
Simple example. I've done a bit of work with 10bit YUV on an older dual Xeon system. Even coming off two drives in RAID 0 the CPUs aren't stressed because the disks cannot feed them data fast enough. More RAM is unlikely to help at all.
Same system processing HDV the balance changes, less data is being moved but more CPU is used decoding the mpeg-2 stream. My newer, cheaper quad system is much faster than the older Xeon system at rendering from HDV but it still doesn't perform as well with 10bit YUV as the old Xeon, perhaps because the mobo was built with faster / wider busses being designed as a server class mobo.

Bob.

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 9/14/2008, 4:38 AM

Hi,

Sorry for the slightly OT question, but I had to ask:

Would I be correct if I assume that SCS did not (yet) implement the new SS4 processor instructions in these latest releases???

Some people claim that they would have a big impact on rendering times...

Or is SCS on purpose holding back here, to implement these in VP 9.0, to have a better wow-factor when released...

Christian

blink3times wrote on 9/14/2008, 6:14 AM

". The only thing really better is the possibility to set your RAM preview buffer to as high as your physical RAM allows "

I disagree.
I had this same reaction early yesterday until I reinstalled Vista. I am now finding 8.1 smoother on time line playback and about 25% faster on renders. The cpu isn't working any faster.... it's already at 100% in both 8c and 8.1.... yet in 8.1 the frames are being written faster during renders.

The thumbnails are also not having to refresh anywhere NEAR as much on the T/L as compared to 8c

megabit wrote on 9/15/2008, 5:11 AM

I don't think anybody mentioned it (I may be wrong) - but did you get Media Manager to work with the 8.1? Here, the MM tab is empty (no way to create/switch library, add files etc.).

megabit wrote on 9/15/2008, 5:48 AM

Oh, and the "Surrogate file" hang bug; somehow I only got it once, and that also when using the Trimmer...

megabit wrote on 9/16/2008, 12:36 AM

I'm trying for the last time to bump this thread up, so that - instead of venting and ranting about how bad Vegas is (or Sony in general) - people start to compile a list of bugs they encounter in the 8.1 release. Please be so kind and see the list in the first post of this thread, and either comment (in a constructive fashion), or add your own items...

This will most certainly help SCS to get rid of those problems in the nearest update. Thanks you,

Piotr

PS. Whether this is fair or not, we've become free Beta testers for this new release anyway. Let's do it with some dignity - after all, we're doing it for ourselves; let's not be pathetic!

jetdv wrote on 9/16/2008, 5:55 AM

1. How do you make 8.1 aware of (not to mention - execute) various plug-ins (Cinescore, Magic Bullet, VASST, Excalibur, etc...)

So far, the only information that I have seen is that Excalibur 6, Project Inspector, and Auto Save do properly appear in Vegas 8.1 and appears to be working normally. If anyone else wants to e-mail me their experiences, I'd like to hear them as well.

megabit wrote on 9/16/2008, 6:03 AM

Yes Edward - Excalibur DOES work in 8.1, indeed. I got my first, false impression it didn't after my first project ever open in the 8.1 complained about a plug-in missing - I mistakenly associated this with Excalibur which I had used on that project in 8.0b. But now I guess it was the (great BTW) VASST Notepad utility (which I'm missing very much).

BTW, when I click "Details" in this missing plug-in error message, the only information is this:

25767cce-c503-4563-8ecd-cee77bac3215

- is it the VASST notepad, or something else that is mising?

megabit wrote on 9/16/2008, 11:16 AM

Further on 8.1 MXF rendering errors: When I try to render out one of my projects (based solely on EX1 mxf clips) as MXF, I'm getting the dreaded "Surrogate file missing" error, and Vegas fails rendering. I also get his error number in a window that appears next:

0x800706be (message missing).

The same project also produces error while rendering out to mxf in version 8.0c ("Vegas stopped working...").

I opened a ticket with SCS support with those questions:

1. Basing on the error number above, can you tell me where the culprit is in this particular project (others render fine)?

2. What is the "Surrogate file missing" message about in 8.1?

Nevertheless, would love to hear from other users whether they also encounter the above errors, and what in a project might be causing them.

MarkHolmes wrote on 9/16/2008, 12:05 PM

I have only one issue so far; Magic Bullet Movie Looks plugin, which shows up fine in 8.0c, does not appear in the effects list in 8.1. Weird.

Only been working with it for a few hours, but amazed at difference in video preview. Opening identical clips on the same 720P timeline, I get rock-solid full-frame playback at best/full in 8.1, where I would get 8-12 fps in 8.0c. This is on a brand-new HP Quad core 6600 runnning Vista 64-bit.

So, thus far, I'm loving 8.1.

Let's see how things go once I start rendering, and I have to get Magic Bullet Looks and Raylight installed and see how they go...

fordie wrote on 9/16/2008, 12:40 PM

cineform..cineform..cineform..oh in case i forgot to mention it...cineform please sony! ..thanks

DEHostetter wrote on 9/16/2008, 2:53 PM

VEGAS PRO 8.1 Bug

Captured 1920x1080, 24 or 30 fps, interlaced video in MPEG2 will not play with the preview window and will not load onto the timeline.

The audio is listed as MPEG by Vegas and as Dolby Digital 5.1 when played through a Cyberling PowerDVD player.

Sometimes Vegas refuses to recognize any audio at all!

After trying to play or load a file onto the time line it eventually pops up a little window that says...

"Sony File Interface Surrogate (not visible) has stopped working"

Vegas Pro 8.0 has no problem with loading, editing and rendering to 24 or 30p 1920x1080 WMV files. The audio is converted to stereo.

megabit wrote on 9/17/2008, 12:21 AM

OK, here goes another one:

I wrote in the first post above, that sometimes the timeline portion of the 8.1 GUI gets messed up, and unresponsive. What's worst, sometimes a project will load (or so is the progress bar saying, and there is no error message), but no tracks are created and the timeline is simply empty!

You certainly have noticed by now I'm trying to maintain a positive attitude towards SCS, but I really believe the 8.1 as it is should be marked "Beta"...

megabit wrote on 9/17/2008, 6:09 AM

"Further on 8.1 MXF rendering errors: When I try to render out one of my projects (based solely on EX1 mxf clips) as MXF, I'm getting the dreaded "Surrogate file missing" error, and Vegas fails rendering. I also get his error number in a window that appears next:"

Just an update: this was my fault - this being my very first project ported to the 8.1, I left the project properties as Upper Field first, while all material inside was Progressive. After correction, MXF rendering works OK.

megabit wrote on 9/18/2008, 2:30 AM

I did a little searching in the 8.1 installation folder, and found out the dreaded "Sony File Interface Surrogate (not visible)" is actually a 32bit application, residing in the x86 subfolder.

As most (if not all) 8.1 crashes so far end up with the "Sony File Interface Surrogate (not visible) stopped working" message, it makes me wonder:

- what is this process actually doing?
- why is it so unstable, and whether its instability is due to some Vegas code bug, or is installation-specific (in the latter case, some of you more lucky ones might never see it crash on their Vista x64 systems).

Any comment welcome - also from SCS :)

quoka wrote on 9/18/2008, 2:47 AM

Blackmagic Decklink support is missing - this is totally crucial for us - we were hoping to be working with 10bit YUV's captured from Digibeta tapes - in 32bit mode (bummer!).
One step forward, one step back.

Using XP_x64. Are we alone with this prob?

Quoka

Xander wrote on 9/18/2008, 5:23 AM

This is what I have found so far:
1) Missing timeline: Usually fixed by loading 8c and then 8.1. Also need to keep file associations with 8c.
2) Quicktime timeline thumbnails are screwed up if it is a Quicktime with Alpha file. Icons in Project Media are OK.
3) Largarith avi files show black timeline thumbnails. Video plays back fine and you can add VideoFx, etc. And yes, I have the 64 bit codec installed.
4) Tried to do a Save As .aaf so I could import into After Effects. Save As .aaf does not exist as an option.

I wonder if 1,2,3 are related to the 32-bit surrogate service that gets 'confused'.

megabit wrote on 9/18/2008, 6:01 AM

Beware of MXF smart-rendering 32bit colour projects!

Even though you would not expect this to smart-render (after all, the colour space is different from original) - it does display this "No re-compression required" message from time to time.

Upon playback, it's evident where it just copied frames (they're in the original colour range), and where it re compressed (more punchy, contrast look).

I haven't managed to find a pattern on when it will do "Smart" rendering (not so smart, as it simply ignores the 32bit colour domain).

After forcing long-GOP re-compression, the mxf rendering of 32bit projects is fine.

megabit wrote on 9/23/2008, 8:53 AM

Speaking of 32bit colour project, I have noticed a huge improvement in their playback - the 8.1 can play mine at Best/Full at 25fps (the CPU usage almost doubling, compared to the same timeline in 8bit).

Rendering times I yet have to measure and compare.

megabit wrote on 9/24/2008, 6:02 AM

This one is not about any 8.1 bug; just an observation. As stated above, I'm observing a much improved timeline framerate under Vista x64. However, cannot say the same about 8.0c under XP - to the contrary, I cannot get full 25fps even from unedited timeline (of course I'm talking Best/Full). Anyone can confirm that?

And a question: anybody tried installing Mercali Prodad Expert with those 2 new versions? I did have it installed under XP, but - even though "visible" by 8.0c - it simply doesn't work (complains about video clip not selected, and alike). Since Under Vista x64 both my Vegas versions (8.0c and 8.1) work OK, and I can even use quite a number of plugins/scripts with them - I wouldn't like to spoil this pretty picture by installing Mercalli, if it's not going to work anyway.

Please report.

Cheesehole wrote on 10/19/2008, 6:18 PM

re: 1) Missing timeline: Usually fixed by loading 8c and then 8.1. Also need to keep file associations with 8c.

Yeah I had that problem - no timeline... thanks for the info. installing 8c seemed to fix it.

But then I saw the "Surrogate" crash bug just now, and after re-opening the project it's rebuilding all my peaks for no reason! 169 clips... so annoying!

This is the second time Vegas 8.1 has rebuilt the peaks for no apparent reason.

And now the crop window is showing black edges on the HDV image - it's interpreting my m2t files as if it the media was set to the wrong aspect ratio. The results in the video preview are normal, but in the crop window the footage is compressed horizontally.

Here's one more... I open a project and it says "An error occurred opening the media file". I hit ignore all errors and then I have to close Vegas and reopen it to get the project to load. It can't seem to read m2t files sometimes. So now the timeline is missing again. Close re/open. This time it works. Ugg...