I love this forum. I've never been on a better one, and the fact that I can come here and get info on not only vegas editing tips, but I can come here and get info on equip, and shooting techniques etc... from people that have been working for years in video and audio. I don't know that I would have stuck around if it had been the way it has been around here lately when I first came - maybe I would have ;-) But I just want it to be normal again.

Dave

Time for a reality check. The question was phased in such a way nobody would answer no. If it was framed better you would have got a totally different response. The question was phrased in such a way to get a desired answer. The reverse answer could have been gotten if the following was the question.

For example if it would have asked "Should links to controversial videos known to have a history of stiring emotion, like abortion pro or con, anti-Semitism or religious fanaticism, wife swapping, or depictions of beheading be allowed, the answer would have probably been a large number of no votes.

Further, wiser people know that for every person posting to a newsgroup or fourm, there are anywhere from a 100 to a thousand or more lurkers, that visit on a regular basis, but rarely if ever post. So 30 or 40 people thinking they can set the tone or demand things be changed, band some posters they don't like,, etc., are in the fact the real miniority.

Billy, I thought that it was clear that it was no matter the subject. I'm not trying to run this forum or anything like that - that's sony's job. I am trying to get some common ground on hot issues, and then let them be put to rest.

And as for the numbers, I'm aware of the fact that there are many more readers than posters (but when it's time to go to the poles those that don't vote don't care how something is run). So, if they didn't say anything or don't say anything then they don't care enough one way or the other.

Please don't take any of this in an offensive tone, or anything. I know you can't hear my voice when you read my words, but I wrote it all in a civil and a non-agitative manner. Thanks for your input, and I know that I'm not gonna change the forum (or the world for that matter), I'm just trying to find that common ground.

Dave

(Edit - 100/1000 to 1 - I new there was a high reader to poster ratio, but I didn't think it was that high. - maybe I'm just not very wise though ;-)

The point I keep coming back to and what now an official Sony moderator post confirms is what I've been saying all along in that what I've decided to call the "finger pointers" actually make most of the noise.

In other words one or two people posting a DIFFERENT OPINION is not a distruption. That's what forums are for. However dozens of people complaining about people having a different opinion or hinting this guy or the next guy should be banned surely is distuptive.

The common ground should be applying the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. I don't know about anybody else, but I like to hear as many different opinions as possible, then decide for myself which one makes the most sense. Here, all too often a few attempt to suggest their opinion is "better" because oh, don't you know, I'm more professional than you are kind of crap. As you noticed I detest that. As you also probably noticed when I express an opinion I illustrate WHY I feel that way, which trumps somebody screaming "I'm a professional" and thinking merely saying it is useful or makes their opinion superior.

BILLY,

YOUR CONSTANT HARPING IN EVERY THREAD IN WHICH YOU PARTICIPATE REGARDING THE "PROFESSIONAL" ISSUE IS THE SINGLE MOST DISRUPTIVE INFLUENCE ON THIS FORUM. GET A LIFE, PICK ANOTHER TOPIC AND GET OVER IT!

John

I rest my case.

Well, then it sounds like, on the topic that this thread is about (nothing to do with professionalism - not an attack, I just didn't see its relavence in this thread, not that it wasn't, I just wasn't able to see it), we are in agreement. Differing oppinions are to be allowed, and that would, I assume cover people wanting editing tips on videos that may be of an objectionable content due to the subject matter being of a differing oppinion. So as it stands - we still all agree that video links should be allowed (unless I didn't understand your post - admittedly I didn't entirely understand it because it seemed a little off the thread topic - maybe you can help me see how it wasn't off topic as I may have just not gotten it).

Dave

All I'm saying is the link in question wasn't the normal hey take a look at my video, how can I make it better kind of link. It was a caculated attempt to inject somebody's agenda on abortion. Period. I know that because this isn't the first time that site as been linked to from this forum, if I remember correctly by the same poster. It has appeared before with regard to more of the same similar religious agenda. I object not because a link to a video was made, rather the intent of the poster offering the link to hijack this forum for the purpose of pushing his religious/moral agenda. Heck, I even said I share the opinion. The point is THIS ISN'T THE PLACE for that kind of video. I'm sure I'm not the only one that saw right through the attempt. That's why I objected. No other reason.

--- the following isn't specifically aimed toward a person in particular ---


For chrissakes, it's like TV : you don't like it, you just switch it OFF.
Easy huh ?
Look : I'm looking, now I'm not. Looking, not. Looking again! (I got you, heh?)Simple. I just have to close my eyes and re-open.
Your bloody mouse is the same except you just click. And you can ditch BOTH eyes AND ears with one click.
Somebody bores you/ bothers you/ plays with your nerves every time he/she interacts on the forum? Now there's the "Ignore posts by ____" button. So USE it.

I want these movies to be accessible to have the CHOICE of looking at these or not.

Ciao todos. Hugs + that big wet Bugs Bunny' kiss on the forehead.




This comment provided by "Futz 2¢ Opinion Inc."


---->

John, as I said in another (deleted) thread, just Ignore him. You'll feel better in the long run, really. I truly understand your rationale, but sometimes you have to weigh the cost against the income, and you're really spending more than you'll ever get back.

Just something to think about.

I guess I just disagree with you. The video was a video - it was done in vegas - and the editor was of some accomplished skill level - but did state in the thread that he was interested in comments/critiques. You think that he did it to try and push his oppinion on everyone in this forum (that was willing to watch it considering the subject matter clearly disclosed in the the original post - at least I understood it clearly, maybe you could help him to post it more clearly for everyone to understand it) but you are not him, and just like everyone says that you are airing some vendetta or what not on this forum - that's no more a fact than you're oppinion that his post was to push his agenda. - Like I said, it looks like we will just disagree, and that's fine, but I would not want to stop allowing potentially valuable input from someone just because I think that, that someone is trying to push their agenda. If we cut out all agenda pushing in this forum, we would cut out a LOT of talent, and I'm very willing to allow potentially agendized (is that a word?) links in order to maintain keeping the talent ridden useres around.

(I hope that I have not agitated you with my post in anyway)

Dave

No, of course you didn't agitiate me. But...even someone saying that, will end up agitiating some people. So will adding <wink> or this LOL!

As far as the core topic, agenda pushing, or self promoting, all the same ball of wax as far as I'm concerned, that is THE PROBLEM this forum now faces. There are simply too many off topic posts started. It didn't use to be this way years ago when handly anybody knew Vegas was something besides sin city.

Maybe part of the problem is Vegas as software is remarably free of issues, so people have the habit of coming here, and you got to talk about something. What's missing, is a place to chat about off-topic stuff.

Many sites that support forums set up a forum just for this kind of off topic noise. It serves as flypaper. There anybody can crow all they want about themselves, the weather, watching grass grow, why they hate the color purple, whatever they want to chat about.

The idea is to keep the noise out of THIS forum. It simply doesn't belong here. If that means Sony for a few weeks has to really lay down the law and lock EVERY thread that's even just a little off topic, then that's what should happen and that's what you should take a straw poll about.

Look, I know I make a lot of noise sometimes. I can at least admit it. Others only point fingers and end up making far more noise. Its a vicious cycle. Unless the forum or newsgroup is truly moderated, meaning all posts pass through a moderator BEFORE the general population sees them (bad idea), then a certain amount of noise is normal. While a bit unusual, in this forum those complaining about the noise the most actully being more responsible for making the noise.

Billy - there's not reason for you to make "any" noise here. If you don't have anything good to say about anybody....don't say anything at all. If the Sony people have a problem with somebodies post...they'll take care of it. We as a community don't need someone like you acting as the board police. What's noise to you - might not be noise to someone else.

It never occured to me that someone might be posting a clip for any other reason than for honest critiques on their work. If Sony doens't have a problem with somebodies clip - why do you?

I think you should start your own community board where you can be the judge of what is noise and what isn't. Where you can decide who has an agenda and who doesn't. As far as this board is concerned...you are only a visitor just like the rest of us.

Cheers,

GM.

I just want a spell checker on the forum.

I suppose that if posters clearly describe the content of their "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Beheading" or "Pro War" videos, I'm fine. On the last round, I never read the first post because I wasn't interested.

I'm used to being spare-changed by stumbling lurchers. As long as I can smell them coming I'm fine. I can get along here just as easily as long as people have the courtesy to identify the content of their movies.

I'd also like to know the running time before I commit to watching. Another courtesy.

Rob Mack

I try to say nice things. Or, I try to say things nicely - usually.
Do you guys really think that any logic in the world will change BB? I don't really understand why you bother to try. I honestly don't. I think the questionair was a great motivated move. I think it told a lot. I can only hope that Sony listens to it's dedicated and loyal users and not the very few nay-sayers. It's not a democracy here, but as far as I can tell, The People have spoken and the Rulers are good folk. As long as we bring no legal trouble to Sony (with porn or other illegal content), may they let freedom ring.

BillyBoy -

I'm one of those long time lurkers who reads lots and posts infrequently. I come here for information about video editing with Vegas - including seeing what people are able to create using this wonderful product. When you said "The point is THIS ISN'T THE PLACE for that kind of video.", it really made me think - what "kind of video" would BillyBoy be OK with? After all, I'm really glad you're here - among us is a truly talented individual. On top of the talent you apply to using Vegas, you are also able to judge "intent" on the fly. After all, you said "I object not because a link to a video was made, rather the intent of the poster offering the link to hijack this forum for the purpose of pushing his religious/moral agenda." I'm so glad you're here to figure these things out for us.

The problem with your "point" is that you're very selective. I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem if you called out ALL videos that could have any hint of being "objectionable". I might also understand if you ranted about removing any studio logos / graphics / credits to avoid a shameless plug. Instead, though, it seems that you call out PEOPLE and VIDEOS that YOU find objectionable. After, of course, you've determined the poster's true "INTENT". My friend, I've made a good living understanding and applying the word INTENT. Nobody, including you, is talented enough to make those judgements based soley upon what we read or link to from these forums.

I do believe this is my first foray into an off topic matter on this forum. I usually find that it's usually best not to feed the bears, but to see this forum take a serious turn for the worse because of the rantings of ONE PERSON made me speak up. I respect your tutorials, your work and your knowledge of computers / Vegas - but I've lost all respect for your point of view. I'm sure you could care less, but at least you know - and I believe in being up front with people (and speaking up as a "lurker")

I do hate to bemoan the point, but consider these "objectionable" videos that we shouldn't link to since they will certainly offend someone:
* "America, the Land of the Free" - Many in other countries would be infuriated with this one.
* "Our Wedding" - If a "traditional" wedding, many, many alternative lifestyle couples would be outraged
* "Out Wedding" (pun intended) - This one will offend all the conservatives!
* "Tractors, Trees and Saw Blades" - Guaranteed to tick off environmentalists
* "Our Children's First Years" - Not quite as controversial, but will be an emotional train wreck for those editors not able to conceive. Better not link to it.

Billy - Do pick the ones that aren't pushing some agenda and we'll be sure to take note. In the mean time, I'd love to continue to see videos of all types that are made with Vegas (that aren't illegal) so long as their content is accurately described in the subject line. See - I'm smart enough to avoid clicking on something that I may find objectionable. I'll use the same "smarts" that I use when I drive past an objectionable business, a church that I don't want to pull in to or a web site that conflicts with my personal tastes & beliefs. I do believe that almost everyone else on this forum is at least as smart as me.

Just once... it would be nice if people actully read what I actually said instead of making all kinds of wild assumptions. I said I object to bait videos being linked to from this forum to spread someone's propaganda. That's what happened, pure and simple. The same poster did it before. Once you see one of those far right "religious" bible thumper sites, you tend to remember them. I would have said the same thing if some one else posted a Nazi loving vid, or somebody linked to a video about Devil worship, or any other of a bunch of topics I know as well as everyone else knows are inflamatory, the video was intended to be. For some to excuse it, condone it or petent it was oh so innocent must have just fell off the pumpkin truck.

Just curious here...
Who is the official Moderator or Admin of the Vegas Forums?

Nice try, but you already failed your own test. Your words: "I would have said the same thing if some one else posted a Nazi loving vid, or somebody linked to a video about Devil worship, or any other of a bunch of topics I know as well as everyone else knows are inflamatory, the video was intended to be.". Within a thread that remains near the top of the list, there is a "link" to a video with content that I am certain some here would find objectionable, if not inflamatory.

The fact that you haven't bothered to comment on that video at all while pretending to be concerned enough to protect everyone from all this inflamatory content is interesting indeed. The point? You're trying to impose YOUR agenda.

I read every word of your post - no need to make assumptions here. I was once told that "If it walks like a duck & talks like a duck, it must be a duck".