Letterbox from a SD & widescreen DC from HDV

jrazz wrote on 8/23/2006, 2:44 PM
Okay, I have a project that has footage from 2 Sony HVR-A1u's and 1 JVC Jy-Vs200.
The first two are hi-def and shoot in widescreen as default. The third's settings were changed to letterbox from the default 4:3 for filming. When captured via vegas, the footage from the A1's was downconverted in camera output as Letterbox to match the settings that the JVC was recorded in.

Now, I spent the last 3 hours reading posts on Letterbox, Widescreen, changing aspect ratios, changing project settings, adding black bars, etc, etc. I am now thoroughly confused :)

Here are my settings and then I will list my dilemma.

JVC Footage:
720x480x24
Lower Field First
.9091 (NTSC DV)

A1u Footage:
720x480x24
Lower Field First
.9091 (NTSC DV)

Both frame rates are 29.97

The project is to be done in 24p Widescreen.

I have a customer who has a widescreen tv who wants it widescreen and then others who will view on a 4:3 tv set. I understand that DVD Players are to control the black bars, but can someone walk me through this process?

The other problem I just figured out- when I had to recapture some footage, it was recaptured in hi-def widescreen, not letterbox. It is the details that get you! I did not have the in camera down convert switched on as the last bit of capturing I did was HDV and converted in vegas to intermediaries.

So, my only question is this, what is the best way for me to get 24p in Vegas and have widescreen on a widescreen tv and letterbox on a 4:3 tv? Is this even an option sense it was all converted to letterbox? Will the widescreen even show bars or is this up to the TV/DVD player settings? Too many options!

j razz

Comments

farss wrote on 8/23/2006, 3:04 PM
Capture anything shot 16:9 as 16:9
Put everything into a 16:9 project.
Render out as 16:9 and author 16:9 DVD.

Those with a 16:9 TV will get no bars from the 16:9 footage and side bars on the 4:3
Those with a 4:3 set will get top and bottom bars on the 16:9 and side bars on the 4:3. Tough, time for them to update their TVs!

But at least this way you're not degrading the resolution of anything, doing anything else and you start loosing resolution. Plus most 4:3 TVs tend to overscan more than 16:9 sets so the amount of side bars the 4:3 viewers will see will not be too bad.

As to the 24p, why?

Bob.
jrazz wrote on 8/23/2006, 3:14 PM
As to 24p- two words, David Jimmerson. Actually, I like the look of the frame rate- personal preference.

Just so I am straight on this- Letterbox should be put on a 16:9 project? That simple huh?

Thanks,

j razz
farss wrote on 8/23/2006, 3:17 PM
You don't need to 'put' anything.

As far as I remember (so long as the flags are right in the source) drop 4:3 onto a 16:9 T/L and it stays 4:3, inside a 16:9 frame.

Bob.
jrazz wrote on 8/23/2006, 3:41 PM
Okay, I have a problem with the JVC footage matching up with the A1 footage. The JVC active footage is placed a tad bit lower than the active A1 footage. I thought I took care of this problem when I recaptured to letterbox, but I did not. Is there another option besides using track motion or pan crop? Something I am missing?

j razz
farss wrote on 8/23/2006, 4:05 PM
Reading your original post why did you letterbox the A1 footage, I would have used squeeze to get real 16:9. What you've done there is throw away resolution. You're getting a 4:3 frame with a 16:9 image inside it, ergo you've lost 30% of your vertical resolution. That's just for starters.

Now the JVC footage was shot letterboxed, well that too is now down in res but that's the downside of using a 4:3 camera to shoot 16:9! So that footage should be matched to the A1 footage using event pan/crop to get it back to 16:9. Put that into a 16:9 project, open event pan/crop and select Match Output Aspect, that'll remove the top and bottom bars and scale what's left to fill the 16:9 frame.

Bob.
jrazz wrote on 8/23/2006, 4:12 PM
why did you letterbox the A1 footage
So it would match the recording format of the jvc cam.

I will give what you suggest a whirl. This is the first time I have combined SD and HD footage and left it widescreen as opposed to cropping. I can always recapture and use squeeze mode, but the jvc does not have that option.

j razz
farss wrote on 8/23/2006, 4:28 PM
Yes, the JVC being a 4:3 camera (I think) will not have that option.
Even the PD170 has a "16:9" option. In effect it does nothing that you cannot do in post with Vegas, all that the camera is doing is masking the top and bottom of the frame. Another case of a 'feature' driven by marketing to add another bullet point to the advertising blurb. The other one I love (HATE!) is frame mode.

Sorry to sound so negative but about a year ago a good and dear soul spent most of his cash to shoot a vid of his band, serious musos, serious intent. The numbnuts who got the gig of shooting the event ran all the cameras (PD150s) in fake 16:9. The results were less than stellar.

Bob.

jrazz wrote on 8/23/2006, 4:44 PM
Okay, I still have to adjust the position of the footage to match so that it does not jump when changing cameras. I am curious as to why the jvc places the active letterbox footage at a Y center of +6.3 what the A1 places it as. So, to make them match up, I have to place the jvc footage at 246.3. This causes the black bars to also change position if I do not crop it. Is there a better way?

When I say active footage, I am talking about the actual footage minus the black bars/mattes.

j razz