Lonesome Matador

farss wrote on 3/24/2005, 4:47 PM

I guess by now everyone has the latest newsletter but I wonder how many scrolled down to the bottom to read the bit about Lonesome Matador?
Shot on HDCAM, edited in Vegas and then into XPRI for finalising, awesome stuff.
I'd certainly like to hear some more details.

And here's the thing. To do that this guy used features in Vegas that I'd bet there's 5 Vegas users on this planet that could make use of it and it was probably done without any of the bells and whistles that are coming in V6. But this one effort and those 5 users will generate more sales than anything that gets added in V6. No one working at that level buys a tool and then complains about what it doesn't do or what they'd like it to do, they buy the tool to get the job done, in any serious production the cost of the tools isn't a big part of the overall budget after all.
So there's no sense in the argument that goes along the lines of 'well only one user has asked for this so we can't see any value in doing it'. To be blunt, what the existing users want is pretty damn irrelevant, it's what those that looked and went elsewhere needed that counts. I know quite a few FCP users (who doesn't?) and a few who use high end Avid gear, none of them use any of the high end capabilities of those products but they were bought because of the 0.01% of prominent users that do, they're all over the place promoting those products and what can be done with them.
Now I've just finished a small project, recorded with Vegas, edited and mixed with Vegas, authored with DVDA. Cleint is blown away and users of other products were impressed to see the whole thing done with just one product, I'm very happy that I jumped on the Vegas ship a few years ago, I've made an almost decent living using it.
BUT. I was offered the chance to work on a 90 minute drama slated for network sale. I knocked it back, simply becuase of the very basic things that Vegas doesn't do. They're of zero importance to what 99.99% of us do but in the world of serious production they're absolutely vital. So I know that most of us post NAB are going to have that warm fuzzy feeling about a whole new raft of features, I'll probably get a few things that I've asked for too so why should I whinge. Well at the moment I feel like there's this glass ceiling over my head, I can see where I might like to go but all I've got is this truly great Swiss army knife when what I need is a basic hammer.
Bob.

Comments

BillyBoy wrote on 3/24/2005, 7:15 PM

Here's a software conspiracy theory:

All really good software actually already had most of the "good" features written into it at its initial development but... hey, the idea is to SELL as many copies as you can and if you give the customer everything he could ever possibily want in the original release then you'll only sell him one copy and just make X dollars when you could have made Y dollars. So long ago, all the software companies got to together and sort of agreed that they would hold back features and offer a "upgrade" in cycles ranging from every six to twenty four months as which time another version would be released, which would really just contain more of the original features that they withheld to get you to buy verson two, three and so on. Result, instead of making just $200 or whatever, they make the inital $200, then another $100, then next cyle another $100 and so on, and so on, and so on.

Just kidding.

Or am I? Its not like it hasn't been done before. Everytime you go to your local supermarket check how many products have the words "new", "improved", etc. on the label.

You don't really think the product is really any vast amount better do you? I mean, take toilet paper for example, it s after all toilet paper, and has one general purpose. Once used, you flush it and changing the length of the roll, adding, then removing perfume or tweaking the formula to make it softer, then maybe more absorbent then quilting it, adding a second ply, take it away or sell it in single rolls only, (once was) then in a six-pack, eight pack, a dozen package, then twenty four rolls, or changing the color or removing all color saying white is now the "in thing" again, really makes it anything but plain old TP do you? Well?

Well sure, I'm kidding, but you got to admit every software company lives or dies selling one upgrade after another, after another and we keep buying them.

farss wrote on 3/24/2005, 7:50 PM

I've actaully been part of a company that did jsut that, we'd quote $250K to add features that weren't in the clients spec and weren't in the documentation. All we had to do was revise the manuals add get a variation from them to cover the price hike, made millions doing that.

But apart from that you are perhaps inadvertantly only too right. The core functionality is determined in V1.00. Compare say Word with Quark, they might seem very similar, both put words on a page and yet MS will never be able to to Word into Quark and vice versa. The core paradigm precludes certain things from being doable. That maybe a bad example as I;ve never used Quark but I hope you get the idea.
Now I'm suspecting there's some of this at play with some of the limitations I see in Vegas as an NLE, I know that many of the things that the audio guys keep asking for would fall under that category and I'm pretty sure some of the video capabilites are held back by what Vegas can do on the audio side.
Bob.

BillyBoy wrote on 3/24/2005, 8:31 PM

Interesting story Bob. I think I may have mentioed it before, so quicke version. When I worked for United Vinters, the big shots one night were smoking their cigars in some conference room shooting the breeze. In walks the marketing director all excited says he got an idea. He's noticed people keep writing letters asking what wine are we suppose to cook with? He says, how about we tell them by adding "cooking wine" or some other hint to the label of a few of our popular wines that would fit? They agree, same wine, same bottle, from same vat, just new label, sales in six month increase 20%. Cost them nothing. Make millions more.

B.Verlik wrote on 3/24/2005, 9:39 PM

One of the wildest stories I ever heard, and it is a "Conspiracy theory/Rumor" story.
At the time NASA was starting to send rockets into space, they needed special film to handle the either brightly lit or near black conditions of Outer Space. Kodak went hogwild in their labs and came up with a solution for them. In their experimenting, they supposedly came up with the "Ultimate formula" that would work in almost any conditions. Instead of giving this to the world they instead decided to market only marginal improvements with each new release, intending on milking it for generations. They never had a clue what was going to happen with computers and photography. Well, it's a good story anyway. I doubt Kodak will admit it.

garo wrote on 3/24/2005, 9:56 PM

ouuh, what News Letter are we talking about? Lonesome Matador?

//Garo

Sr_C wrote on 3/24/2005, 9:57 PM

My wife and I used to be loyal "Excedrin" customers (you know..for headaches, pain relief etc). We always had a bottle in the house as my wife suffered from frequent headaches (insert joke here ;) ) Anyways, Excedrin came out with a "Migrane" formula (new packaging, new commercials etc), billed as "mild migrane relief". Well, since my wife seemed to be having quite a few headaches that kept coming back (enough with the jokes already!) We thought we would give it a try. Mind you we had an almost full bottle of regular Excedrin at home....but I went to the store and bought a new bottle of the "new" Migrane formula.

Well...when I got home I was curious. So, I took both bottles and compared the ingrediants. And yes....they were EXACTLY the same. Same active ingrediants, same inactive, same amounts of everything etc.. I was taken aback by this seemingly outright scam. So.. i actually called the number on the back. I barely got through my first sentance on the phone when the lady gave me what was obviously a prepackaged, prewritten answer to what they must have known would be a common complaint! (I can't even remember what their excuse was) They offered to send me something for my inconvience.

Two weeks later I got coupons for what turned out to be about $50 worth of Excedrin.

This was about five years ago. My wife and I are now loyal Advil consumers.

Check it out next time you're at the store. I think they still sell their "Migrane" formula.

garo wrote on 3/24/2005, 10:04 PM

ouuh, what News Letter are we talking about? Lonesome Matador?

//Garo

garo wrote on 3/25/2005, 12:22 AM

Can someone post the link to that?

//Garo

farss wrote on 3/25/2005, 12:32 AM

The details are in the Sony Media Software news: March 23, 2005 email.
To quote:
Oscar.-winning special effects director Anthony Lamolinara used Sony Vegas and XPRI software to edit and produce his film Lonesome Matador. Lamonlinara says, "Vegas was an essential part of the post production process on Lonesome Matador, a 24p HDCAM originated festival short I directed last summer. We were amazed at what Vegas software could do. When we screened the film at the DGA theatre in Los Angeles, it looked and sounded great!"
Lamolinara won an Oscar in 2004 for his special effects work on Spider-Man 2. He is currently working on two new films; King's Bet and The Dominant Jean. The official Lonesome Matador website is www.lonesomematador.com

garo wrote on 3/25/2005, 4:00 AM

That didn't help very much because there's no trailer or anything on that site. I have also checked "Send me the News letter" but I have never resived one yet.

//Garo

farss wrote on 3/25/2005, 5:45 AM

That's it I'm afraid. This isn't some two bit player however, the guy does have an Oscar for his work on the animation in Spiderman.
Bob.

newbe wrote on 3/25/2005, 6:07 AM

<newproducts@products.sonypictures.com>

B.Verlik wrote on 3/25/2005, 12:04 PM

Newbe, that address goes nowhere.

vicmilt wrote on 3/26/2005, 7:15 PM

With all due respect - I don't see comparing Vegas Video to toilet paper.

Having been blessed enough to actually LIVE through enormous generations of change in the way we make films (now videos) - I can safely attest THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY...

We are just lucky enough to BE THERE when the entire modern world is experiencing the greatest advances in technology, data, communication, space travel, medicine, meda and... gosh I forgot where I was - and nearly fell off my soapbox.

Look - in 1988 I bought my first sound editing program - I think it was "Sound Design" but I can't remember, for sure. To run it I paid about $3500 for a Macintosh with a processor speed of (again bad memory) I think about 80mhz and I bought the largest hard drive available to the public a 1 gig drive for $4,800.

WE were still editing on film with cutters, yellow crayons (to indicate dissolves) and special perforated scotch tape. Putting a title on a film took three days, and cost a hundred bucks.

I got the "Schweppervescence " account because I figured out a way to make the bubbles at the top of a glass become a ballet dancer. No one else could figure it out, and I wouldn't tell - so they HAD to give me the entire campaign - ha ha... today any smart kid in high school could do that effect on ANY Best Buy computer -

That we are even where we are today is a miracle that any "old pro" will still marvel at. NO - ain't Sony or Adobe or Microsoft or anyone else "holding back" to keep the upgrade loop alive. They are all running as fast as their little feet will carry them, to keep up! I bless them all every day - and yes, MY computers crash just like yours.

What it is - the whole process is alive. It's all interdependent and we are the luckiest people ever in the history of mankind to be there, witness it happening, and actually be able to take part in it. If you are reading this - you are a pioneer who will be looked back upon with wonderment in your own lifetimes.

You can remember before the internet? before 200Gig drives? before computer non-linear editing? before Vegas 6????

Count your blessings, one and all. You are lucky to be alive in the greatest time ever.... and there ain't NO conspiracy - period!

v.

BillyBoy wrote on 3/26/2005, 7:28 PM

"With all due respect - I don't see comparing Vegas Video to toilet paper."

Oh come on... nobody did. I used something everybody uses, toilet paper, as a classic example to show over time how its "evolved" while it actually hadn't. First it was sold in single rolls, then larger and larger packages, 4 8 12 24, etc., first sold only in white, then in colors, with, then without perfume, quilted, unquilted, single, then double ply, etc., etc., and in all that time its been around, for all practical purposes TP hasn't changed, but clever marketing types have hyped the crap out of it, (is that a pun?) and us consumers have fell for all of it.

I wondered out loud if some software companies actually "create" for lack of a better description, a complete version of whatever they're developing, but deliberately hold back features and instead slowly over years in "upgrade" cycles "add" new features in order to make far more money then they could if a "complete" version was released immediately. Bob said, he worked for a company that actually did that.

vicmilt wrote on 3/26/2005, 7:45 PM

Well... re toilet paper - whenever I travel to any 2nd world country - I bring my own toilet paper (from the States) - most places in the world have two kinds available - wax paper and sandpaper - hooray for American technology and the softest buttwipes in the world.

Re: planned obsolecence... that's what they used to call it - and it definitely WAS a factor in American manufacturing in the boom years of the fifties. But putting fins on a car and calling it "all new" is not the same as upgrading editing, imaging and compositing software when you've got a new generation of computers that will run at twice the speed as last yera's - and this on an almost yearly basis.

Now I admit, I have been a Sony freak since one of my assistants popped the first headset on me with a walkman attached that he had bought in Japan in the mid '70s - WOW - I don't think they are "holding back" anything... And not just them, of course... I'm talking about every equipment and software manufacturer out there. I think they are all "bleeding on the cutting edge". ... I just don't believe when you've got equipment and software turn-arounds that are measured in months from introduction to obsolesce that any company can afford to hold stuff back... but it is possible that you are right. If so, I STILL can't wait to see what's next... yum!!