(grrrrr)

Who at Maudio said it is an application issue? If they (or you or anyone else) can point to what we are supposedly doing wrong, we'd be happy to make adjustments to the app to accomodate this one brand of cards. I do think (and you can forward this to them if you feel like it, cc me at drdropout@sonicfoundry.com) that blaming us is taking the easy way out. Here's why:

You the user should not have to hunt and peck through a huge pile of driver options, release and beta, and then fiddle with a mind boggling array of settings in the control panel just to get Vegas to work. I demo'd Vegas 4.0b all day long on 3 different systems at NAB earlier this month (plus I run the thing all day every day here) and I have to say the NAB system with the Maudio card was THE most unstable I have EVER seen. Their tech guru came by and had his guys whip out a beta driver overnight which seemed to help the stability quite a bit (but he did the driver install and the control panel config, and alas, I did not write all the settings down at the time).

I'm not ever going to say we're perfect, but I will state categorically that the app is not fatally flawed and unusable under any conditions. People with Echo card I bet will agree with me- install ONE driver, the current released version, touch NO settings, and Vegas works great with both wave classic or ASIO. That's the way it should be right?

Anyway, we're willing to do just about anything to resolve this- we want this problem to go away as much as you do (more actually, since there are tons of Maudio users). We are in contact with high level people at Maudio, they have copies of the app, they had access to betas during development, but as of this writing I've heard nothing from them about a possible solution. Again, we're willing to make changes- immediately- if they can point out the problem on our side.

SonicEPM,

I totally agree with you here. As I pointed out the problem I'm experiencing, described in my email to M-Audio in the thread;

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=174546&Replies=5&Page=1

to which after 10 days now I've yet to get a response, occurs in both Vegas and CW Home Studio while trying to record/playback simultaneously. The same problem is all over the net in forums with Delta drivers with many other multi-track apps.

M-Audio MUST be aware of this (and other) problems but are dropping the ball. Hell even the SB runs in full duplex. Should one have to have two cards installed to record/playback simultaneously? : {

Interestingly they have a "Help Wanted" for driver writers in the Employment section of their site.

MJ

What a coincidence, I just received a response from M-Audio as follows with previously posted info not included.

>>>>>>>

MJ,

As you probably know pops and clicks are generally caused by a lack of
available resources at any one time. Of course, the more ram you have and
the faster your computer, the better. If your card is on it's own IRQ, that
is positive. Make sure your computer is optimized for audio. Disable
background services, messenger programs, virus software, internet activity
(temporarily), sleep mode, etc.

The WDM/MME driver structure that the programs you listed for use are
somewhat suspect. My notion is that you would not experience the same
problem if you were using an ASIO based software. You may want to try
downloading a demo of an ASIO based program and see if the same thing occurs.

Please let us know if the problem persists.

CK

At 11:27 AM 4/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:

>M-AUDIO HARDWARE TECHNICAL SUPPORT FORM:
>
>
>
>PRIMARY INVOLVED SOFTWARE: Vegas Video 3.0c, Vegas Audio 2.0 and Cakewalk Home Studio 9.01
>MIDIMAN & M-AUDIO PRODUCTS: Audiophile 2496
>PROBLEM HAS EXISTED SINCE From the beginning

<<<<<<

I know I don't have the fastest/latest system but is it too much to expect to playback 1 previously recorded track while recording 1 track for a total of 2 tracks? Or for the tech. guy to read my entire email where I point out I did pear down the system to nothing but the recording app.? Sheesh...

MJ

Dave Said:
"(grrrrr)
Who at Maudio said it is an application issue? "

Get 'em Dave!!! Kick their *@#$*^^^### weasily #@$%^& butt. LOL!!!

Dave Said:
"People with Echo card I bet will agree with me- install ONE driver"

Amen Brother!!! I installed dual Echo Gina 20's, one driver. It even comes with it's own EXECUTABLE install file so I don't have to go through the "Install New Hardware" and find a .DLL file through the whole Windows B.S. User Friendly install!!! Touch no settings and run Vegas, pick which driver you want, ASIO, Windows Classic/Pure Wave. It doesn't get much easier, unless Echo came out and plugged the cards into my PC for me.

mjhig said:
"Or for the tech. guy to read my entire email where I point out I did pear down the system to nothing but the recording app.? Sheesh.."

He didn't have time to read the entire email, he was too busy fixing their f*@ked up driver, and replying with a stock cut and paste reply, so everyone else doesn't run off and buy Echo and RME-AUDIO cards. This is typical behavior. There's 2 ways to fix problems, I run into this everyday.

1. Spend time proving that it's not your problem by showing it works with other apps and point the finger elsewhere.

2. Spend time investigating the problem, therefore understanding it and figuring out how to make your product more robust, then feedback the information you've gathered to the real problem source if there's nothing you can do to fix the problem.

M-audio sounds like they fall under category #1 and Sonic Foundry falls under category #2.

The problem with category #1 problem solvers is that they point the finger, then eventually the category #2 get's to point their own finger right back at themselves, and then they look twice as bad. Real problems happen when two category #1 problem solvers go at each other, and nothing get's done and the user is the one who's stuck in the middle.

Red

First, let me say I've been extremely impressed with SoFo's rapid response to this issue. If you want an example of bad tech support (with a good product) hang around the Steinberg Cubase forum for a while.

Second, if anybody from M-Audio is listening, this is a good way to lose customers (both professional and hobbyist). Sound card manufacturers such as Echo and RME seem to provide tighter back-up with their products; users such as myself will remember this when it comes time to upgrade their hardware.

Finally, has anybody else been able to reproduce the issue in the original post? I want to make sure (to help SoFo) that this isn't a more complex problem than just the ASIO M-Audio driver.

Kevin.

FWIW, ASIO works great here using the .29 driver with my 1010. Input monitoring with effects and high track counts (20+ stereo 24-bit).

I just visited the M-Audio sit. The .29 is still a beta driver. Is it solid with your other audio apps, StepD? If so, I'd like to try it with Cubase SX, Gigastudio, and Vegas.

Kevin.

Works great for me with GigaStudio 96, Logic 5.5, SONAR 2.2, Vegas 4 and everything else I've thrown at it. Couldn't hurt to give it a try (using the latest driver uninstaller, etc.)

Here's the quote in the email from M-Audio:

"I'm not sure I can resolve an application specific problem like this. If you can use the deltas in another application and they function correctly, then they are for all intents both installed and functioning correctly. I will forward a report on this issue to testing to apprise them and let you know if any info comes back. . . "

Their position is that everything functions just fine in VV3.0c which I've done countless projects in. Since it works fine there, and not go in 4.0, it must be the application. Where are they wrong in their thinking here??

And just for the record in case M-Audio happens to read this, I was interested in getting the 1010 but I'm going to look at Echo tomorrow. Maybe that's the easier solution.

This is weird. . . it seems like every few months or so, there is another round of hassles with the M-Audio drivers (usually related to a app update or some sort and/or new drivers from Maudio). At least that is what I've concluded by regularly reading the SoFo forums. I've NEVER experienced any problems like these with the Echo cards (I've been using Laylas for about 4 years now). For what its worth. . . ;-)

drbam

I gave it a try…

driver (5.10.00.0027)

Audiophile 24/96 card

Vegas 4.0b build 174

M Audio Delta ASIO" is selected under Options> Preferences> Audio Device> Audio Device Type

hitting the on-screen stop button or 'enter' to stop playback

4 video tracks
15audio tracks

But….Cannot reproduce problem.

My system:
Dell 866, PIII
384ram
WinME

??

I stumbled on to the solution to this problem recently.

I had been having problems with exception errors in Vegas using the M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 and ANY version of Vegas 4.0. Usually when hitting stop or pause, an exception error would display, and Vegas would exit to the desktop. Even after the 4.0d update, I had ongoing problems. Updateing to the .29 M-Audio driver fixed the problem in Vegas, but then Cubase SX wouldn't work. Since I didn't need low latency in Vegas, I resigned myself to using the Windown Classic driver.

Recently, I was having trouble with an M-Audio Audiophile USB and an Echo Indigo PCMIA card on a laptop running Cubase SX. Tech support from M-Audio e-mailed several times over 4 months with various suggestions, all to no avail. Then, out of the blue this week, M-audio e-mailed me a one-liner:

"do you have the latest version of Direct-X installed?"

Well, I'm not a tech expert, so onto the net, where I discover that you can run a DirectX diagnostics program (dxdiag.exe) from Start>Run. And wouldn't you know, DirectX 9.0 on the laptop (new Sony model purchased in July), DirectX 8.1 on the desktop, and NONE of my sound cards are passing the diagnostic tests! Update to DirectX 9.0b (yes..."b") and all of my problems dissappear on both systems. Refer to both Echo and M-Audio's documentation (written and the web) - no mention of this issue.

Just a word of caution: if you update DirectX, you can't go back, so if your system is working (check with dxdiag) then I wouldn't update - something about "if it ain't broke...".

Hope this helps someone else,
Kevin.

This is an older thread but the problem has landed on me now.

When I use the keystroke or onscreen buttons to pause or stop an audio only project with only one track (4 events) and no plug-ins, I get an exception error and the thing crashes. If I get it to crash enough times, sometimes the error stops, but this is unpredictable and no way to work.

I found this discussion which mentioned updating DirectX. I've updated to 9.0b and had no success in solving the problem. This was a problem with M Audio drivers, yes? It so happens that they created the driver for my Edirol card. Anything new on this that might help?

Windows XP Home
Pent III 1 gig
512 RAM
Vegas 4.0e bld 239
Edirol DA-PCI sound card (DA 2496 unit) driver ver 5.10.00.0026 (by M Audio)

I'll throw in another for M-Audio. I have a Delta 410 and updated the driver the other day -CRASH. No apps ran as well as before so I had to roll the driver back. The new one was of NO use to me. Bad programming I think.

So if there is anyone from M-Audio reading this thread - it goes both ways. Vegas 3.0 works but 4.0 doesn't and it MUSt be Sony's fault. Well, old driver works, new doesn't....whose problem??????

It's all so relative. Another user in this forum just gave away a layla cause it sucked so bad for him. What did he keep? M-audio 1010. It runs flawlessly for him, I've seen it!