Magic Bullet, filmlook & other questions

mbelli wrote on 7/3/2004, 12:56 PM

I've recently switched from Canopus to Vegas. With the DVStorm I was able to get a wicked filmlook with not a great deal of rendering. The key ingredient to my Canopus filmlook was deinterlacing clips, the Canopus movie plugin allowed deinterlacing and selection of types of fields.

Now I want a filmlook with Vegas as good, or better. The trouble is that there is so much filmlook stuff posted online -- that I don't know how to begin and a lot of posts are vague or confusing.

Here's what I'd like to know.

I've shot 30 fps normal miniDV . What is the best way to create a filmlook with this kind of footage with Vegas

A) do I render/output with a NTSC 24P template, what pulldown do I use?

B) do I create a 24p project instead and edit my 30fps clips on that, how should that be output?

C) do I need to go 24P at all or can I just deinterlace? Is there a good way to deinterlace with Vegas cause I can't find how to do this?

D) Does Magic Bullet movie looks only adjust color, add glows and so forth -- does this version not deinterlace as well? If that's the case, this Magic Bullet version is a waste of time.

Any help on how to begin would save me a lot of time and be much appreciated.


MB

Comments

Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/3/2004, 1:31 PM
Here's a good place to start. It's a "How-To" article by Douglas Spotted Eagle.

Jay
mbelli wrote on 7/6/2004, 12:52 PM

I've seen that article, it's very good, but I still can't get the filmlook I want from Vegas, at least compared to my Canopus DVStorm system.

I'm not sure I like going Vegas 24P, it seems jerky in my opinion and unatural. I'd rather just filmlook in this manner:

- deinterlace
- add some grain
- add a glow
- adjust color and gamma

Is there a way to deinterlace/blend fields and so forth in Vegas without me needing to go to 24P termplate?



MB
busterkeaton wrote on 7/6/2004, 1:48 PM
24P will look jerky on preview because the monitor is not setup for 24P. Final results on DVD will look smooth

I believe Spot's filmlook tutorial that uses 24P is intended for DVD output only.

Edit:
This is from the article
In case it's not immediately obvious, to print this to tape requires a camera or deck capable of receiving a 24P stream. If you already have a camera, most of this tutorial is of no value, so we'll set that aside. This technique is most valuable for printing to DVD...
Spot|DSE wrote on 7/6/2004, 2:00 PM
Indeed it is to output to DVD only. You can't print 24p to a tape machine unless you have a Panny cam. MBelli, I've got a Storm, can't seem to see a good film look there compared to what Vegas is doing, but maybe you have a secret recipe that I'm not seeing?
orca wrote on 7/9/2004, 12:05 AM
It seems like this one was forgotten. Can anyone explain this since the website doesn't give enough information or screenshots. I'm weighing on the issue whether MBE is worth buying, the 10 free presets certainly look nice, but do you only get 50 presets and can only combine those looks to create your own?

Another thing is, can we accomplish the same / similar look by using Vegas FX (color correction, gama, etc)?

---- Quote ----
D) Does Magic Bullet movie looks only adjust color, add glows and so forth -- does this version not deinterlace as well? If that's the case, this Magic Bullet version is a waste of time.
---- End of Quote ----


Please advise.


Thanks,
Marty

farss wrote on 7/9/2004, 3:53 AM
As far as I know there is no magic in the bullet, after all there is only so much that can be done to make video look like film. Abou the only thing that would get you a bit closer is a better de-interlacing system using motion vectors but as far as I know there's not many (any?) software based solutions that can that.
mbelli wrote on 7/9/2004, 6:31 PM

>MBelli, I've got a Storm, can't seem to see a good film look

One thing before I start here, I have a different take on filmlook then most, having shot a lot of 16mm/35mm.

I don't feel you can ever quite get it, however, you can take the edge of your video -- so it doesn't look like the evening news. I consider these techniques in the same realm as camera filtration (promists, smoke, double fogs -- stuff like that)

I just wrapped an IFC series where I filmlooked the entire series through the Storm card, the series was shot with a Sony D30 and a Canon XL1 (non-movie mode).
Funny I used the XL1 for a lot of interviews with actors like Christian Bale, directors Peter Bogdanovich, late DP Conrad Hall, and even scripwriting guru Robert McKee. All that was at their homes or at Mole Richardson, LA and using the little XL1 for that stuff made everything casual -- just awesome. Anyhow, shot that stuff non movie mode, just norm and the Sony D30 for stuff with actors.

Here's what I did, you can try a short clip as an experiment:

a) import camera footage into Premiere (again non 24P, no movie mode, no progressive, no dropping of shutter speed)

b) apply Canopus old movie filter but unclick everything except interfield effect which you should set to "blend" (especially do not use any blur)

c) apply Canopus soft focus radius 15, blur 30, brightness 0 (starting point only)

d) apply Canopus motion blur at 20-25 (this is optional)

e) apply Canopus noise at 2-4 (optional as well)

d) apply Canopus color correction and

- increase chroma slightly
- adjust your contrast to where you want it
- adjust tint for a warmer ot cooler look (depending if you want to simulate Fuji, Agfa, Kodak, take this into consideration when adjusting contrast as well, Fuji stocks are usually flatter)

e) apply a 16:9 black matte if desired

All the above needs to be adjusted depending on your source footage and your own taste and the viewing conditions. But this method can output back to DV or you can encode MPEG2 with Canopus Procoder or CCE with excellent results for DVD.

Again, I look at this suff like camera filtration only done in post -- I don't like using the term filmlook, but I guess it describes quickly what you're trying to do. All I'm trying to do is filter the stuff a little, and the above settings are only a starting point, it depends a lot on your source, D30 stuff needed more blurring cause it was sharper.

I was talking to Ira Tiffen awhile back about this whole thing and suggested that Tiffen develop a filter/deinterlacer program, you know punch in "double fog" or "1/2 black pro mist" -- that would be reallty cool. Would be easy to write. Get away from the filmllook thing of Magic Bullet and market it like a "add a camera filter in post" kind of thing.

Anyway hope this helps a little.


MB