Main Concept woes...

jmpatrick wrote on 1/6/2002, 8:43 PM
I've got an 86-minute production that I've been trying to cleanly burn to DVD-R for a week. The first thing I did was render the file as a video-only MPEG2 file using the default DVD template. The resulting file was 2.8 gigs...small enough to fit on a 4.7 DVD once the audio was added. I used MyDVD 2.0 to burn the audio and video files to a blank disc. Everything went smooth, and the disc played on my Sony DVD player no problem. However, there was noticable digital artifacts present on darker sections of video (not blocks like the image was breaking up, just artifacts like the bitrate wasn't high enough). So, since the 86-minute program didn't fill the disc using the DVD template, I figured that I could bump up the bitrate a tad which would hopefully fill the disc as well as eliminate the artifacting. Easier said than done! I tried raising the average bitrate a little bit, but the file became 4.91 gigs. Same results when I bumped up the minimum bitrate a tad. I even tried lowering the maximum bitrate and raising the average. Same story...huge file.

So, what's next? Is there a setting I can tweek to clean up the artifacting on the darker sections of video? Of the 3 main variables, which is the key? Using the Default DVD template, how much content should be able to fit on a 4.7 gig DVD-R? How about using Constant Bitrate...how much content should fit on a 4.7 gig DVD-R at the default of 8 mbps?

I understand the reasoning behind not including full parameter documentation with the new Main Concept encoder, but in my current situation...it would be nice to have some basic suggestions as to altering the templates to correct (more or less) minor problems.

The new encoder is faster, and more convenient. I just wish the templates that SF and MC keeps recommending resulted in a usable file.

My system:
Dual P3 1gig
756 megs PC133 RAM
Pioneer AO3 DVD burner
Windows 2000 with all updates

jp

Comments

Wondering wrote on 1/6/2002, 9:29 PM
Tough luck!

Commercial MPEG settings are closely guarded secrets.

No point asking MC; they are binded by the non-disclosure agreement. They will only give you 'diplomatic' answers.
jmpatrick wrote on 1/7/2002, 3:08 PM
C-mon...there must be some tweeks.

jp
SonyEPM wrote on 1/7/2002, 4:51 PM
I've been messing quite a bit with MPEG-2 encoding recently, and have occaisionally seen the macro blocks you describe in dark portions of video (esp fades to black). I've seen this same prob in commercially produced DVDs as well, so it is obviously a tricky problem.

Here's a few things to try: (use "F1" help as a reference if you wonder what the MPEG custom controls do)

Crank Video quality to high (you probably did this already)

Use CBR rather than VBR, and set the data rate as high as you can (within the DVD range, but small enough to fit the program).

Try changing the DC coefficient, to a smaller value.

MPEG encoding is a specialized art, so expect to burn a few coasters as you learn. And please, post your results on this forum- SF and MC engineering monitor these boards.
Wondering wrote on 1/7/2002, 8:08 PM
Hi SonicEPM,

Didn't realised you guys are also looking into the Mainconcept problem. (Those guys in Germany are still in holiday mood!)

Maybe you can help me with this. I'm getting stutter audio playback from MPEG1 produced by the Mainconcept Encoder.(By the way, I used a Pioneer DVD player to playback the VCD from the MPEG1 files)
It is most obvious when the video contains still graphics.
Have tried tweeking all the buttons on the Mainconcept Encoder but to no avail.
What a waste to have an Encoder that produced great pictures but the stuttering audio is 'killing' it.
I've no choice but to carry on using the VV2's Ligos Encoder (Picture quality not that great but at least the audio is okay)

Hope you guys can look into it.

Regards
pelvis wrote on 1/7/2002, 9:06 PM
"Have tried tweaking all the buttons on the Mainconcept Encoder "...

sounds like a recipe for disaster!

I know I have asked this before, but I want to confirm: for VideoCD, you have rendered to the VideoCD template, 100% unmodified from the factory presets? No custom adjustments of any kind? I have to date burned over 20 VideoCDs using the stock MC VCD template and none of these have had any problems.

If you have indeed used the stock, unmodified template, and you still have probs, you might try this (just a hunch here):

add a "Broadcast Colors" filter as a Video Output Effect (drop the filter onto the Vegas video preview window). Set the filter to clamp. It could, maybe, be some out of range colors slamming the MPEG encoder...maybe.
Wondering wrote on 1/7/2002, 9:56 PM
Thanks!

Will give it a try.
By the way, if the templates had work properly, I wouldn't bother to try the adjustment.

Anyway, does your VCD works well on an DVD player?

Regards

SonyEPM wrote on 1/8/2002, 8:31 AM
The stock template works great on APEX and Panasonic DVD T2000 players using el-cheapo CDR media-
Quarterbeerz wrote on 1/11/2002, 1:22 AM
Visit vcdhelp.com
or

www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/70438

There's lots of other encoders out there that do a better job than mainconcept. (my opinion, anyway)

I've been using TMPGenc and Cinema Craft Encoder and both do a really nice render. (I make SVCD's though)

You can find demos of those encoders at their websites to give them a whirl.

qb
brant wrote on 1/19/2002, 8:26 PM
I get the same problem with studdering audio playback on a VCD. And I've tried the disk in two different Pioneer players.
What I did notice is that if you take the rendered MPEG1 file and import it back into a new session of Vegas Video, and play it back - it studders (pops)there too. I believe the encoder is at fault also. You can hear the "pops" where I've mixed (faded) audio. It's in the same place as in the vcd studdering audio playback.
I'm going to take everyone else's advice and use Tmpeg.


wk wrote on 1/21/2002, 6:18 AM
When I rendered my movie to MPEG1 for final encoding to PAl VCD...I got very poor video and sound. Sound was ofcource corrected by ncreasing audio bitrate, but even after amximixing video data rate, at CBR and at best quality, I got color blocks, specially at moving and dark-bright shots. The movie once rendered on a VCD, also camer out to be very jerky!

As I was on a deadline, I tried another way out...I trendered the movie to AVI using Indeo5, and mp3 audio stream...and then rendered this to a VCD...things are MUCH better now, with very good sound, and smooth video , no jerkyness, and minimal blockines...ofcource, the qwuality can always be miproved, but my work, for the time being was done.

I wanted to ask, whats wrong in rendered to AVI instead of mpeg1 if I want to render to a VCD?

I used Nero.

p.s.: I must add that my final movie colors on the TV turned out to be a bit washed out...maybe I must have first used the broadcast colors :(