Mainconcept DV files not compatible with Vegas

johnmeyer wrote on 5/10/2004, 9:09 AM
I use VirtualDub to "clean" old video files using filters that cannot be plugged into Vegas. The inputs to VirtualDub are DV AVI files captured with Vegas. However, VirtualDub cannot use the DV encoder in Vegas or Windows, so I use the MainConcept DV encoder which I purchased from them. I am using version 2.4.4.

However, Vegas 5.0 does not like the DV files created by this encoder.

When I bring these AVI files onto the timeline, it takes about five times longer than normal to build the SFK files (the audio peak files). In addition, when I move the cursor on the timeline, there is a sluggishness and hesitancy.

If I put one of these AVI files on the timeline, and then immediately render to a new AVI file, using the Vegas codec, and then bring the resulting AVI file back onto the timeline, it behaves normally.

Bottom line, I can no longer use Virtualdub with Vegas without doing a lot of extra work.

Bummer.

Comments

Bill Ravens wrote on 5/10/2004, 9:52 AM
why don't you frameserve?
taliesin wrote on 5/10/2004, 10:05 AM
>> I use VirtualDub to "clean" old video files using filters that cannot be plugged into Vegas.

Not even with the PluginAdapter which was designed to use VirtualDub plugins or Wax which does same? (I know not all of the VirtualDub plugs work this way.)

MainConcept DV works fine in Vegas (any version), but maybe you created and AVI type 1. Might be Vegas dislike type 1 AVIs, at least Vegas only captures and output AVIs of type 2.

Marco
johnmeyer wrote on 5/10/2004, 10:57 AM
Can't frameserve, because PluginPac doesn't allow filters that operate on more than one frame. MainConcept DV encoder only creates one type of DV file, and I think it is type 2.
taliesin wrote on 5/10/2004, 11:01 AM
Mmh, strange. I can render from within Vegas using MainConcept DV and these files work well in Vegas then. I think there is something odd besides the MC codec itself causing the problem.

Could you share a single frame?

Marco
taliesin wrote on 5/10/2004, 11:11 AM
Also, did you check the MC codec settings?

Marco
vitamin_D wrote on 5/10/2004, 11:31 AM
That works just fine for me -- I do a lot of Vegas/VDub preprocessing/filtering/etc. using Satish's frameserve plugin. You mentioned the filter issue, this should make it moot. Change your VDub codec to huffyuv, too...

- jim
John_Cline wrote on 5/10/2004, 11:49 AM
I don't believe it had anything to do with the Main Concept DV codec, or Virtual Dub directly. It sounds like an audio interleaving problem to me. Have you checked the audio interleaving settings in Virtual Dub? If the interleave setting is turned off for some reason, Virtual Dub will append the audio stream to the end of the file after the video stream. This will certainly cause the slow loading times you describe. Resaving it in Vegas will save it with the correct audio interleaving and it will load normally, which is exactly the behavior you describe.

In Virtual Dub, I normally set the audio interleaving to a 500ms pre-load and a 250ms interleave. Let me know if this fixes it.

John
johnmeyer wrote on 5/10/2004, 1:48 PM
Also, did you check the MC codec settings?

Yes. They are all set to the default values for both the encoder and the decoder.

Something odd besides the MC codec itself causing the problem.

I will look through all the VD settings.

Have you checked the audio interleaving settings in Virtual Dub?

I have never visited this dialog. Interleaving is enabled and set to Preload: 500 and Interleave Every 1 frame (which should be every 33 msecs).

I do a lot of Vegas/VDub preprocessing/filtering/etc. using Satish's frameserve plugin. You mentioned the filter issue, this should make it moot.

I still don't see how frameserving using the Satish frameserver will help me. That plugin lets me frameserve FROM Vegas to something else, without having the encode and save the video. Since I cannot use any temporal filters within Vegas using the Satish PluginPac, frameserving from Vegas is indeed a moot issue.

Now, frameserving INTO Vegas from Virtualdub might be useful, because that would avoid having to use the Mainconcept DV encoder. However, I don't need the Satish frameserver for that because VirtualDub has a frameserver built in (although I forget whether Vegas can import from VD's frameserver).

I am still working on finding a solution to my problem and will post here if I find something. If others have really used VirtualDub to create DV files, and if these DV files don't operate slowly in Vegas, then it is probably some setting in VD that I am overlooking. Also, it could be that some people are not as sensitive as I am to the performance degradation -- the AVI files still work, but just at a much slower speed.
John_Cline wrote on 5/10/2004, 2:29 PM
John,

Try setting the interleave in VD to 250ms or even 1 second and saving a DV file. Perhaps Vegas 5 is choking on the one frame interleave. I use Virtual Dub generated Main Concept v2.4.4 DV files in Vegas all the time and I've never had a problem. (With the exception of Vegas hiccuping at 2 seconds 28 frames into any clip generated outside of Vegas due to Vegas assuming NTSC framerates are 29.297002997 fps (30000/1001) instead to 29.97 fps (2997/100) like everyone else does. Vegas is correct in using the more accurate frame rate, but they're the only ones that do it correctly. This problem bites me in the butt fairly often, in fact, it happened just yesterday on a logo animation I generated in After Effects and imported into Vegas. There is a way around it, but I sometimes forget to fix the file header manually before importing.)

I have also not upgraded to Vegas 5 because I'm in the middle of a bunch of projects and I don't want to "change horses in the middle of the stream."

By the way, for the highest quality output from the Main Concept DV codec, nothing should be checked in the codec setup dialog. Particularly the "Fastest" checkbox in the encoder section. It is enabled by default, it shouldn't be.

John
johnmeyer wrote on 5/10/2004, 4:15 PM
Try setting the interleave in VD to 250ms

This fixed the problem. Thanks for insisting in both your posts that I change this setting. I note that if you go to the Custom settings in Vegas for DV AVI files, in the video tab, Vegas also sets the interleave to 250 msec. I guess it is important to match this setting.

I wonder if the dozens of posts over the years about problems importing DV AVI files from sources other than Vegas might also have something to do with this, or perhaps similar settings?

I will uncheck the "Fastest" setting as well (actually, except for the past few hours, I have always kept this unchecked, even though the default is "Fastest.").

At any rate, hopefully Sony will put this one in their tech support database.

Again, thank you for your help.