Comments

farss wrote on 3/22/2005, 1:04 AM
In brief, as you make and image smaller defects become less obvious. How did your video start out?
What did you shoot it with?
How does the original footage look on the TV, the resulting DVD should look almost identical.
Bob.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/22/2005, 4:23 AM

As Farss point out, it would help to know more about the original footage. What is the source footage like, poor, fair, good? What format? How was it transferred? Etc.

It would be more helpful, too, if you would describe, step by step, what your process is for preparing and burning the video to DVD. Without knowing the specifics, it could be any number of things that we are curently unaware of.

[EDIT]
And it would help to know what DVD burning software you're using. I've learned not to assume everyone uses DVD-A.


apit34356 wrote on 3/22/2005, 5:07 AM
As stated above, more information would help. But if you are new to DVD rendering in Vegas 5, do not use default settings, there are many previous postings, use search on forum, about poor results using the default settings. Many times default is OK, but not this time in rendering Mpeg2.
omar wrote on 3/22/2005, 6:01 AM
I'm fairly new to Vegas, I've been pretty much using default settings for capturign and rendering.

Could you tell me how to give you the info you're looking for...

btw, when i render with MPEG2 I don't see an option to change the default settings.
omar wrote on 3/22/2005, 6:04 AM
I generally burn with NERO.

Could you run down what the best are for capturing, rendering and burning, since the only info I can give is that i use defautl settings for everything :(

I use an average minidv, panasonic 3ccd camera, capture through vegas and render to MPEG2 (all on default) and then burn the MPEG file onto DVD using NERO.

The final file generally looks nice on the PC but looks like really old VHS on the DVD.
jdas wrote on 3/22/2005, 6:42 AM
Omar,

This is what I do to get good quality DVDs:

1. Shoot with a 3-CCD camera(sony vx2000)
2.Capture footage with Vegas.
3.Assemble captured clips on Vegas timeline,trim when necessary,add transitions,fx effects,audio,etc.
4.When project is ready, go to File/Render as/Mainconcept mpeg2(under save as type) and DVD PAL (under template). If you are in NTSC regions choose DVD NTSC. Vegas has one of the best mpeg2 encoders.
5. When render is complete, open DVD-A and import the rendered mpeg2 file.Design the menus when needed,insert a blank dvd disc in the burner,press Make DVD button and finally choose Prepare DVD & Burn option.

PS: I am no expert but am willing to share what I know. Hope my input will benefit you.
ScottW wrote on 3/22/2005, 7:04 AM
If you aren't seeing a "customize" button for changing settings when you are rending MPEG-2, then you aren't running Vegas - you're running the little brother Vegas Movie Studio. As I understand it from the VMS forum, the quality available rendering from VMS is very poor and you are much better off doing your actual rendering in DVDAS.

There's nothing that needs to be changed for capturing. DV is DV.

If you are actually running the big brother, Vegas, then you should select for MPEG-2 the DVD Architect NTSC or PAL template. Don't use the default template. The DVDA templates give you an average bit rate of 6,000kb/s, which is usually fine for most things, though some people prefer 8,000kb/s (though I personally wouldn't go any higher than 8,000).

--Scott
omar wrote on 3/22/2005, 7:41 AM
I do have options to change the Default to other settings as mentioned. (I meant that the customize button wouldn't work under MPEG2)

I'm going to try rendering using DVD PAL or DVD NTSC and see if there is any difference when burned on DVD between that and using DEFAULT for MPEG.

btw, Might sound silly, but how do I know whether to use PAL or NTSC?
Randy Brown wrote on 3/22/2005, 8:07 AM
What country do you live in?
Randy
omar wrote on 3/22/2005, 8:09 AM
USA.

I rendered with MPEG DVD NTSC and now im having trouble getting the DVD to play in the dvd player. Dang fujifilm dvd/r's! aargh.
Randy Brown wrote on 3/22/2005, 8:24 AM
NTSC was the right choice for the US. Are you getting a "no disk" error?
Randy
omar wrote on 3/22/2005, 8:30 AM
> NTSC was the right choice for the US. Are you getting a "no disk" error?

I didn't mean to change the flow of the thread, but yes it just won't read the dvd r's anymore in my dvd player. It tries to read for about a minute and then says "Insert Disc". Sometimes it puts a question mark. I'm guessing its the fujifilm brand. I've tried different speeds.
I'm going to try a different media.
Randy Brown wrote on 3/22/2005, 8:39 AM
I use DVDA2 and know nothing about Nero but does Nero give you any indication that the DVD "burned successfully"? Also, how old is your DVD player and what brand?
Randy
omar wrote on 3/22/2005, 9:12 AM
pretty cheap "cyberhome," CH-DVD 300 about a year old, but I've never had any problems with it playing dvd's...
BillyBoy wrote on 3/22/2005, 9:13 AM
Nero can make "none standard" CD's and DVD's, meaning you can cheat a little. Fine for personal use IF your DVD player supports the cheating, not a good idea if you sell your stuff.

As far as the original question, there are many templates to pick from. Do NOT use the default MPEG settings, use either the NTSC or PAL DV templates. You shouldn't have to mess with the custom settings. The defaults work fine and give good results assuming you're starting with good source material to begin with. Garbage in...garbage out. So if you're source material is less than good quality then all bets off.

IF your source material isn't that great, I'm getting to be a big fan of the Canopus #300 which with a little tweaking can do a really nice job on removing video noise. SO, if you are making DVD's from less than prestine VHS tape, or other older sources MAYBE investing in the Canopus 300 for roughly $500 is worth it for you. I'm glad I got one.

One final suggestion. Everyone knows I'm kind of a color correction nut. If you have less than great source material another trick that sometimes helps is begin by reducing the saturation far more than you normally would think is a good idea. Something in the area between .350 to 500. At this point the colors will be very faded. Now using each of the three color wheels in turn set black and white points, then mainly eyeball it pushing each color wheel in turn far more than normal to the outer edge which will put back the saturation, but more selective for each of the ranges, lows, midtones and highs. Sometimes, underscore, only sometimes, any over saturation or bleeding and other odd color problems and remaining video noise will now be better corrected than using other methods. If still not there, add the Secondary Color Corrector and use its single color wheel for further tweaking if necessary, but don't until after the first steps.
omar wrote on 3/22/2005, 9:53 AM
> I use DVDA2 and know nothing about Nero but does Nero give you any indication that the DVD "burned successfully"? Also, how old is your DVD player and what brand?

Wow I actually burned it using DVD Architect and the dvd played absolutely fine! I had it, but I never used it before.

I'm still having the same problem with the quality played on the TV. However, I'm noticing it's mosly when the camera is on something black such as a very dark room or a shadow - it has such low resolution. Besides black items, the rest isn't too bad.

The raw footage doesn't look like that when played locally on black areas.
Randy Brown wrote on 3/22/2005, 10:01 AM
If you already have DVDA I would always use it (for many reasons). At this point I would do a search for "DVDA default settings"...in most cases you don't want to use them.
Randy
BillyBoy wrote on 3/22/2005, 10:09 AM
Nero, all DVD authoring applications give some kind of indication if the DVD burned successfully along with some cryptic error message (usually) if they didn't.

Did you color correct, adjust levels using a external monitor, or just skip it or only used your computer monitor? If yes to any, that could be the issue due to we're talking about two totally different color spaces which are very different for computer monitors verses televisions.

In low light situations, video noise can become a problem. When you "blow up" the picture's size when playing back a DVD on a TV, more so with larger screens, artifacts can become more of a problem, mostly in the picture's darker areas. Another reason why you want to adjust the video on an external monitor so you get a better idea how it will look once played on a TV.
omar wrote on 3/22/2005, 10:21 AM
> Did you color correct, adjust levels using a external monitor, or just skip it or only used your computer monitor?

I don't really know how to do what you're saying. I compose the raw footage in the timeline and then render. Can you describe briefly how I might adjust the color levels using an external monitir before rendering?
BillyBoy wrote on 3/22/2005, 10:44 AM
Click on my name under 'reply by' then click on the link you'll see to go to one of my web sites I devoted to tutorials. I will freely admit I'm kind of obsessive about the topic, but sometimes it can make a night and day difference in the finished quality.
craftech wrote on 3/22/2005, 10:59 AM
You say you have a Panasonic 3CCD camera. Is it one of the newer ones like the PV-GS120 that was Panasonic's answer to the shrinking CCD phenomenon in the industry. The 1/4CCD we used to scoff at has become a treasure if you can find one in a consumer cam so Panasonic came out with a Three 1/5 CCD camera which brings the typical 1/6 and 1/5 CCD single chip camera up to the pathetic level of a 1/4 CCD camera amidst the Oohs and Ahhs. Transferred to VHS it isn't going to look very good unless there is plenty of light. Also, if that is the camera you have it has image stabilization that shuts off when the light dims and an autoexposure that doesn't choose the best resolution.
But I may be making too many assumptions here, and I appologize if I am. Moreover, are you rendering Mpeg 2 with DVDA templates for separate audio and video at an average bitrate of around 6000 or so?

"Dang fujifilm dvd/r's! aargh"
???????
The Fuji media you are using may be made by any number of manufacturers so you willl need to decode it with DVD INfo or DVD Identifyer first. Much of Fuji media is made by Taiyo Yuden (which is excellent media) , but it says Made In Japan on the label. If it is Made In Taiwan, it may very well be CMC Magnetics, a terrible company.

John
omar wrote on 3/22/2005, 7:59 PM
Yes I do have the PV-GS 120...

>Also, if that is the camera you have it has image stabilization that shuts off when the light dims and an autoexposure that doesn't choose the best resolution.

Is there any way to work around this then?

>Moreover, are you rendering Mpeg 2 with DVDA templates for separate audio and video at an average bitrate of around 6000 or so?

I'm just rendering the file to MPEG2 within Vegas and then I burn the MPEG file in DVDArch.

> If it is Made In Taiwan, it may very well be CMC Magnetics, a terrible company.

Yes it does say "Made in Taiwan" I tried making two more DVD's and they failed again! I thought DVD ARCH was helping because the one I made after I stopped using NERO was flawless, but now I just think it's the DVD R's and now I have 50 of these useless dvd r's :)
B.Verlik wrote on 3/22/2005, 10:46 PM
In the Mpeg 2 settings, even the default settings of Vegas' better settings, still the lowest setting in VBR is at 192,000 and can easily introduce artifacts when viewing dark subjects. If you get into your customized settings, try raising the low setting to about 2,000,000 and use 2 pass encoding and see if that improves your DVD look. If you want great settings, try using a CBR of about 8,000,000 (Constant bit rate). Only good for about 50 minutes of video on a disc though. In VBR mode use at bit rate of 8,000,000 high, 6,000,000 Average, and 2,000,000 low and use 2-Pass encoding for about 1 hr and 15/20 minutes on a DVD5
craftech wrote on 3/23/2005, 4:25 AM
>Also, if that is the camera you have it has image stabilization that shuts off when the light dims and an autoexposure that doesn't choose the best resolution.

Is there any way to work around this then?

==============================================
Yes, you can use manual settings some of which are menu driven (as with most modern consumer cams). Sometimes the cameras turn off the manual settings all by themselves so you have to stay on top of it. I would highly recommend this user group website for lots of ideas on how to get the most out of those cams. Guy Bruner is very helpful.
===============================================

>Moreover, are you rendering Mpeg 2 with DVDA templates for separate audio and video at an average bitrate of around 6000 or so?

I'm just rendering the file to MPEG2 within Vegas and then I burn the MPEG file in DVDArch.

============================================
Use the NTSC DVDA template for video and render it to a folder using an average bitrate of 6-7000. Then choose the same template for audio and render it as AC3 to the same folder. When you open up DVDA and locate the folder it will put them together when you author the DVD and not make any changes to the bitrate. It won't re-render it.
==========================================

> If it is Made In Taiwan, it may very well be CMC Magnetics, a terrible company.

Yes it does say "Made in Taiwan" I tried making two more DVD's and they failed again! I thought DVD ARCH was helping because the one I made after I stopped using NERO was flawless, but now I just think it's the DVD R's and now I have 50 of these useless dvd r's :)
===========================================
Don't throw them away. Burn them using DVDA, but choose 1x burning speed. DVDA will probably burn them as 2x becauise it misreports the burn speed (a problem unaddressed by Sony). Still, if you have been burning at 4x, you should get more compatible results if you burn at 1x (2x), don't use a label, and render as I stated above.



John