Master Audio levels are wrong???

ianjuby wrote on 3/2/2013, 3:11 PM
Hey all,

Working on a television show, just recently upgraded to Vegas Pro. Since the upgrade, for some reason my master VU meter runs hotter than actual levels - by at least 4 db it looks like. The individual track VU meters look correct, but if I render out a video with the master VU meter showing peak levels of +2 db, and then reload the rendered video into the timeline, it shows about -2db peak. The individual audio track VU's seem to be correct, but of course I'm mixing multiple sound tracks and vocals, so I really need the master VU meter to work right. I'm mystified over this one! Thoughts?
TIA,
Ian

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 3/2/2013, 6:41 PM
Are you really using VU meters? You shouldn't.
Digital production is dBFS. The absolute ceiling is 0, not +2 or + Anything.

Once you have the correct terminology, post some screenshots and examples if you can.
ianjuby wrote on 3/2/2013, 7:37 PM
Holdover from many moons - by "VU" I simply mean the audio levels. Always called them VU meters, so.... Yes, it is DBFS.

I ran a preview of a segment of the show - this particular spot only has one audio track, so that simplifies things. As you can see, the master audio levels peaked at +.6
http://ianjuby.org/images/master.jpg
However, the audio levels on the track itself peaked at -1.4
http://ianjuby.org/images/tl.jpg

I rendered out that segment, and then dropped it into a new project and previewed. As you can see the levels peaked exactly the same for both the track and master levels at 0.0 dbfs! Go figer.
http://ianjuby.org/images/tl2.jpg
http://ianjuby.org/images/master2.jpg

This is for broadcast, I have to be exact on my levels. So far I've just been able to fudge factor it, but there has been some minor clipping going on because of this problems.

TIA,
Ian
musicvid10 wrote on 3/3/2013, 5:44 AM
For broadcast where?

EU audio broadcast content levels are set by EBU R128.
US levels are determined by ATSC A/85.

Both require true peak levels well below 0 dBFS, and loudness determined by LU/LK meters, none of which Vegas has natively. You'll probably want to use some limiting and compression to get it in the pocket.

If it's short form content they "may" level it for you at the station.
If it's long form, they'll probably toss it right back at you.

Your video levels must be broadcast-legal also. Vegas does not do this automatically.

Email my user name at gmail if you are interested in having me do the leveling for you.
musicvid10 wrote on 3/3/2013, 5:52 AM
Yes, since your master meters are set at +2.0, the output levels will be 2dB higher than the track. It's how it works, and Vegas is doing what it's designed to do.
You must NEVER output anything equal to or greater than 0dBFS in digital production. As I said, it's a hard ceiling, there is no + anything! Quite unlike the analog reference you are used to.
pwppch wrote on 3/3/2013, 9:22 AM
What file format are you rendering to?

What happens if you render the audio only to wave?

Your master bus should not be set to anything above 0dB unless you are doing post limiting on the bus to bring it back down below 0dB.

Peter
rraud wrote on 3/3/2013, 9:41 AM
Prior to the CALM act, the specs generally were in US referenced @ - 20dBFS with program peaks not exceeding -10dBFS. In UK and other EBU countries -18dBFS with program peaks not exceeding -8.0dBFS. However most broadcasters use the EBU R128 or ATSC A/85 recommendations at this point and it's best to get exact specs from the broadcaster prior to submission to avoid rejection. AFAIK, none of SCS software have EBU R128 or ATSC A/85 meters. Third party plugin meters are available though.
ianjuby wrote on 3/3/2013, 1:23 PM
Never mind - I found it. Thanks musicman; I have no idea why the master levels slider bar defaulted to +2. Like what is up with that???

musicvid10 wrote on 3/3/2013, 5:38 PM
"I have no idea why the master levels slider bar defaulted to +2."

It didn't. You did. New projects default to zero.
Changing it inadvertantly is as simple as hitting your Up Arrow or clicking on the line.
;?)