Media Manager Comments

BudWzr wrote on 1/27/2010, 7:35 AM
Media Manager has got to be one of the worst DBMS implementations I've ever seen, and I don't know what SCS is thinking. (actually I do).

The only benefit I see is that it reads the tags on Sony loops. The darned thing is convoluted and not optimized or intuitive.

It seems to me that the media-tags relationship is backwards, and the queries take too long. I can't "feel" the schema, and I get the impression that the data is built with "brute force" recursive queries.

And why can't it be a standalone app too? That way we can open it when we feel in the mood to "organize".

Comments

TeetimeNC wrote on 1/27/2010, 11:09 AM
I always use MM when I have a lot of clips I need to organize before I start placing them on the timeline. I create a new library for each of those large projects and I find it repsonsive for that narrow task. I also have a library for all my reusable stuff and it works ok there too.

My background is IT and much of my work has been in DBMS. I agree with a lot of what you say, and MM needs a major overhaul with more of a focus on end-to-end workflow.

Two biggies for me:

1. If I tag all my media for a specific project, then do the Vegas "Save as" to gather my media and archive the project, all the MM tag links are now broken because Vegas renames the clips as part of the gathering process.

2. Many of us have complained that you can't handle subclips in MM.

I could go on, but for now I suggest MM can still be useful, just in a much narrower scope than you would expect. I also suggest you submit your suggestions to SCS through the Product Suggestion link at the top of the page.

Jerry
BudWzr wrote on 1/27/2010, 6:23 PM
Meh, I made a mistake ordering something from the SCS site in download format instead of boxed so I sent them an email offering to pay the difference if they could help me out and they never responded. I sent TWO e-mails just to make sure they got it.

I wouldn't offer them the sweat off my brow. ;)
Editguy43 wrote on 1/27/2010, 9:32 PM
"I wouldn't offer them the sweat off my brow. ;) "

Here is a suggestion why don't you send back all the products you bought from SCS and go get a mac and FCP that way you will leave us alone and send your UNWANTED rants to the FCP forum.

You have complained more than almost anyone here ever has, before they were kicked off.

It seems to me that anyone that dislikes a company and its products as much as you seem to would give up and find some other software to run.

rmack350 wrote on 1/27/2010, 10:13 PM
I made a mistake ordering something from the SCS site in download format instead of boxed so I...

TeeTime was writing about making a product suggestion, which is different from what you're responding with. Never-the-less, if you have a good suggestion be sure to submit it. They probably won't respond or ask you to clarify but SCS often uses the suggestions (even if they didn't understand it).

The Media Manager was a response to lots of users who asked for better "Media Management". I can't say that I ever saw anyone clearly define what that meant to them. That might help explain the result.

Rob Mack
farss wrote on 1/27/2010, 10:51 PM
"The Media Manager was a response to lots of users who asked for better "Media Management". I can't say that I ever saw anyone clearly define what that meant to them. That might help explain the result."

It wouldn't be too far off the mark to apply the same comment to PTT.
It's been many decades since the original version of this cartoon was published, nothing seems to have changed.

Bob.

PeterWright wrote on 1/27/2010, 11:28 PM
Good one Bob - yeah, shame about the PTT. I did use it ages ago to make a title move across the screen and round the head of a character - very effective, but it was such a convoluted process, and I honestly can't remember how I did it, and haven't used it since.
(probably as much a comment on my senility as on the PTT)

And BudW - we all have times when we feel critical, but there's ways of doing it...
I think I can speak for SCS and say they're quite happy that you haven't offered them the perspiration from your forehead.
Grazie wrote on 1/28/2010, 12:09 AM
Bob! Hysterical!!!

Sorry to digress slightly, but there are more out there . . .

Functions needing to be finessed? - These are mine:

1] No Sync Cursor for ANY Generated Media - I don't care WHY not - I want them!

2] Option for Looping/Controlled Player of Media in MM? We got it in other places?

3] MM use Count - now THAT would be useful! We have all that other stuff about relationships, but not USAGE Count?

4] Import of Media directly to Trimmer from MM.

5] Safe Areas "Overlays" to External Monitor in DVDA but not in Vegas? Why?

6] (Slightly different from 5] above) No Safe Areas "Overlays" to External Monitor in DVDA from the EDIT Workspace, WHERE they are needed!! Sure, you can see them in DVDA "Preview" don't really need them in at that point, where you CAN'T do anything to the change the result? They are needed to ExtMon within the Edit Work Space? - Now tell me I've missed the "switch"?

7] Truly, PTT DOES needs a Development Project Plan AND, if there isn't, somebody to take it forward.

8] Active FX Icon in Event not prevalent enough - it looks the same ACTIVE as it it does NON-ACTIVE

9] Ability to do a Snapshot FROM the Trimmer. I can do a Single Frame Subclip (yuck!) but not a "Save Snapshot . . " nor a "Copy Snapshot . . "? But with the "new" Monitor options in Trimmer none of the options to get a still?

. .I have others, but I'll shutup now . . .

Grazie
BudWzr wrote on 1/28/2010, 5:17 AM
".....the sweat off my brow" comment should be read as a funny, as it's "G" rated version of the original. (Get It?)
TeetimeNC wrote on 1/28/2010, 5:38 AM
4] Import of Media directly to Trimmer from MM.

Grazie, I am able to drag media from MM into the trimmer. And with the improvements to the trimmer (was it in 8?) I frequently use the trimmer as my intermediary between MM and Vegas timeline.

Regarding the other comments in this thread about MM and PTT - few companies get a product right the first time out the gate. Nobody is a better example of this than Microsoft. They have produced some real 1.0 duds that became 2.0 successes because they listened to user feedback. I feel the same about Adobe.

I wish SCS would do a better job incorporating user feedback to turn MM and PTT into class leading products. I especially think MM has tremendous potential. Done well, MM could compete as an affordable standalone Digital Asset Manager.

I have submitted many suggestions over the past two years via their suggestion tool, and I'm sure others have too. I hope we start seeing some improvements in these tools that are stuck in 1.0 status.

Jerry
Grazie wrote on 1/28/2010, 7:32 AM
Yes, TT, I too use Drag to get to Trimmer. Dragging is a DRAG! And ONE click gets it onto the Timeline.

"Few companies . . ." I understand that, been with Vegas since 2003, so I kinda know the flavour & smell of the animal? Oh yeah have taken timeout twice to visit their Corporate stands in Amsterdam.

Grazie
TeetimeNC wrote on 1/28/2010, 7:42 AM
Yep Grazie, it is a drag. A bigger drag for me is that you can't add as a take from the trimmer.

Jerry
Grazie wrote on 1/28/2010, 8:49 AM
> A bigger drag for me is that you can't add as a take from the trimmer.

Well I just did it. . . . .

While in Trimmer make selection > Right Drag > Release on existing Event in TImeline > "Add As Take"

Grazie
rmack350 wrote on 1/28/2010, 12:11 PM
Bob!!!

You're my hero today. I've looked for that cartoon several times and never found it. Looks like it's evolved a bit since the late 70's.

Printing now.
farss wrote on 1/28/2010, 1:26 PM
"Regarding the other comments in this thread about MM and PTT - few companies get a product right the first time out the gate. "

There's a big difference between bugs and failure of the functional design to meet usability requirements. If a product rolls out with lots of bugs this indicates a lack of testing, a problem fairly easily addressed going forward. In the case of the latter it indicates systemic problems in the company structure and management.

Both Avid and M$ have had their fair share of the latter. Avid did something about it. They went out and talked to users. When the opposition is biting at your heels and customers are leaving in droves is not the time to be expecting users to type up suggestions, the written word is useless for this. You need to be on the ground in the thick of it.

Both MM and PTT would have to rate as serious failures of design. Both were excellent ideas. No doubt considerable effort went into both of them, MM could have made Vegas a serious contender in the marketplace. Media Management is the number one deal breaker at the pointy end of the business and is rapidly trickling down towards the bottom end.
One has to marvel at how such a serious failure was allowed to happen. Worse MM has been out for years. Instead of sending people out into the field to find out why users aren't using it, it seems destined to just fade away. This is tragic, we wanted it, we paid for it, someone expended a lot of effort on it.
On other matters I have been asked by a SCS developer to explain certain ideas and shortcomings. Doing that is difficult at best, impossible at worst. As someone else said, tell me about it is good, show it to me is better . Today global interactive speech and vision communication is free. You don't need to really put someone on a plane. Developers have the tools to watch what any user on the planet is doing, they can see the user with a $10 webcam, they can talk in real time to the user. None of this technology is being leveraged by SCS.

Bob.
TeetimeNC wrote on 1/28/2010, 2:33 PM
Bob, I believe!

For years about 18 years I owned my own software company. My field representatives told me we needed an addon to our program to do reconcillation. Easy enough.I asked a few questions, designed the program and developed a working prototype.

I sent it out for review by field reps and select customers. Within a few days the response was unanimous: "Jerry, what the H*** were you thinking?". It was a complete failure, totally useless for the intended purpose.

Back to the drawing board with a lot of involvement from field reps and customers. In a few months we introduced the resulting product. It was just an addon, but it became the class leader in our industry and helped propell our main product to number one with 160 of the potential 300 customers using our system instead of our competitor's.

Maybe MM should be considered by SCS as a learning platform to help solidfy what digital asset management in this niche should be. I still think it could be a strong part of the SCS portfolio with some strong vision and leadership.

Jerry
Earl_J wrote on 1/28/2010, 2:38 PM
Hello Bob,
perhaps their failed webinar today was a step in the right direction, no?
It did include a messaging box, so they did expect feedback from those in attendance ... I hope...

Until that time... Earl J.
LoTN wrote on 2/1/2010, 12:49 AM
Maybe MM should be considered by SCS as a learning platform to help solidfy what digital asset management in this niche should be. I still think it could be a strong part of the SCS portfolio with some strong vision and leadership.

Also a coding platform for trainees ?

MM memory management in thumbnail chooser is broken.
John_Cline wrote on 2/1/2010, 1:18 AM
".....the sweat off my brow" comment should be read as a funny, as it's "G" rated version of the original. (Get It?)

No.