Mic Suggestions? Please Help!!

S35 wrote on 2/14/2008, 9:31 AM

Hi everyone, I'm a Vegas user and also own a Canon HV20. I need to do some shots in a carpeted room about 40 'x 20' with a 15' ceiling.

The internal mic picks up an unhealthy amount of reverb, so I picked up a Rode Videomic yesterday and tested it inside my house which has similar acoustics to this other room.

Louder, clearer, camera motor-free results, but unfortunately, still suffers from that hollowness.

I'd like to use this mic instead of a lavalier (since I have a lot of shots to do) but I'm wondering is there a way of eliminating that reverb without getting a lav?

Any suggestions would be MOST appreciated!!

Comments

Coursedesign wrote on 2/14/2008, 9:39 AM

You don't say what you're shooting, but one key is to get the mic closer to the sound source. Can you move the mic closer to the person speaking assuming that's what you want to pick up? Using a broom stick, hanging it from a ceiling lamp, hiding it behind a table lamp, etc.

Worst case, can you hang up some moving blankets, comforters, etc. to reduce room reflections? Ideally away from the walls.

S35 wrote on 2/14/2008, 9:57 AM

Hi, thanks for replying.

I'm shooting dialogue (a courtroom scene). I guess I'll have to try the boom idea (modified painter's pole).

I really do like the Rode; however do you have any inexpensive lav suggestions if this doesn't work?

johnmeyer wrote on 2/14/2008, 10:06 AM

If you don't get close, it doesn't matter what mic you use. Close is the "secret."

S35 wrote on 2/14/2008, 10:11 AM

Thanks everyone, I'll see how it goes.

P.S. thanks for not discriminating against amateurs!

baysidebas wrote on 2/14/2008, 11:55 AM

Boundary effect mikes can work wonders in such situations.

Coursedesign wrote on 2/14/2008, 2:46 PM

Audio Technica has several lavs from good (AT831 etc.) to very good (AT899), but even the best lavs will give you a different sound from a boom mike.

Good or bad, you decide. For a courtroom drama with lavs, you might even have to mix in some more room ambience, depending on what you're looking for.

The Rode Videomic sounds phenomenal for the money, try to stick with it if you can. Can you get somebody to move the boom pole between the two people speaking? Do practice beforehand, and try to keep the mike no more than 2 feet away from the mouths of the people speaking if you can. If you can't get that close, do what you can and test, test, test.

sean@oregonsound.com wrote on 2/14/2008, 3:37 PM

I have an AT831b I use as an alternate mic for recording ADR, and can confirm it is a quality mic---though I find it highly susceptible to handling noise. It's cardioid, which is the best choice for trying to get a dryer recording---but as mentioned above, even a close lav will not eliminate an overly live room. Treating the room is the only real fix, but since you're shooting a courtroom scene, being on the live side isn't necessarily a bad thing.

richard-courtney wrote on 2/14/2008, 8:36 PM

Getting close is best option.

As far as a pole see my post
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=475093

It may not be practical to treat the walls but if you are getting some bounce behind
the mic you can try an acoustic foam kit
http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_xpanders/sound_isolation_xpanders.asp

Coursedesign wrote on 2/14/2008, 9:57 PM

Auralex foam gets expensive very quickly.

You can rent moving blankets from U-Haul instead, that may be your best deal. Note that you get the best effect with them some distance from the wall, use your imagination if you don't have fancy stands.

And www.Markertek.com has 76" x 68" Jumbo Sound Absorbtion Blankets on sale for $19.99/$17.99 for 6+.

TGS wrote on 2/14/2008, 11:03 PM

You may look into the Crown PZM boundary mics. Starting at $69. and up, at:
http://www.wwbw.com/Crown-Sound-grabber-II-Pressure-Zone-microphone-i84608.music

These type of mics are what they use in courtrooms and big halls.
They are known for rejecting room noise (echo-reverb)

Be sure to do some experimental recordings, before the real thing.

John_Cline wrote on 2/15/2008, 12:46 AM

"They are known for rejecting room noise (echo-reverb)"

I've used PZM microphones for over 20 years. They do not reject room noise, particularly echo and reverb. What they do is eliminate acoustic comb-filtering due to sounds bouncing off of nearby hard surfaces and arriving at the microphone later in time than the direct sound. A simple explanation is contained in this .PDF

http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136367.pdf

The best advice was mentioned earlier in this thread: get the microphones as close as possible to the sound source. There are myriad ways to make a microphone sound further away from the source than it was, but there is no software yet written that will make a microphone sound closer to the source than it was to begin with.

Since it's a courtroom scene, there is really no need to hide the microphones, it wouldn't look out of place in a courtroom to see microphones on the counsel's tables, the witness stand or the judge's bench. Wireless lavs would be best from an audio quality standpoint. However, it might be a tiny bit out of place to see everyone wearing lavs. (Although I doubt anyone would really find it objectionable. "Your Honor, I object to seeing these lavs!!" "Overruled, now sit down Mr. Shore.")

John

TGS wrote on 2/15/2008, 3:34 AM

That was definitely a poor way of putting it.
But my experience says they do a better job from a distance under those conditions of at least getting a more understandable signal. The ambiance seems less intense to me. I've been using them over 20 years too.
And I would never say to go ahead and mic from far away. CLOSE is always best. Including PZMs.

craftech wrote on 2/15/2008, 5:25 AM

I think the common misperception is that a shotgun mike is supposed to be used from far away. The opposite is true. Works best on a boom pole.

John

S35 wrote on 2/15/2008, 8:20 AM

Thanks everyone for all the info!

I'm going to go with the boom idea; but now I need to know whether it's better to use xlr or stereo mini to connect my Rode Videomic to my HV20.

I've had two different opinions on this, and I'd like to mention I wouldn't be using a Beachtek or anything unless there is something reasonably priced that would give me amazing results (for longer runs).