Microphone Recording Volume

DavidPJ wrote on 10/26/2003, 6:34 PM
I know this probably isn't a Vegas issue, but here goes. For the first time in 3 years I'm trying to use my little microphone off my Sound Blaster Value card to record a voice over for Vegas.

I know this is very dependent on the PC hardware, etc., but what should I expect in the way of microphone recording volume? Even with my Creative mixer and Microsoft record control microphone volumes all the way up, the record level seems very low. The mic is about 2-3 feet from me, and I have to speak quite loud in order for Vegas to register a sound level from -6db to -3db. It's as if there's yet another microphone volume control that has to be raised up.

I know if I held the mic close to me, it would be a big improvement, but I don't think that's the answer. I just don't know what volume to expect for the recording process. My guess is I should be able to really overdrive the sound input by simply tapping the mic, but I can't.

Thanks for any tips.

Comments

TomG wrote on 10/26/2003, 6:42 PM
Hey DavidPJ,

I will be curious to hear any answers since I have had the same problem myself. I finally gave up and dubbed my narration on the video. I sure would like to do that directly on the timeline, though.

TomG
BillyBoy wrote on 10/26/2003, 6:43 PM
Bring up Control Panel and see if your sound card has a mute switch for the microphone. You may or may not have a gain slider for the microphone. What kind of mike are you using? Some like mine require a battery. Probably best to test outside of Vegas first to see if its a Vegas issue or a Windows issue. All versions of Windows have a built-in recorder. See if you get normal volume recording with that. If not likely a missing driver.

Do you see the gain control on the audio track you're recording to?

You need to arm the track; little button turns red and also click a similar button near the play controls at the bottom of your tracks. As you record you should see the peaks building and the little track gain control dancing around.
Jessariah67 wrote on 10/26/2003, 6:50 PM
Also, depending on what kind of mic it is, 2-3 feet away is quite a bit. You might want to check out a few things:

1) does your sound card have a dB cut on it? Some have jumpers that need to be removed/added depending on what your application is.

2) Does your mic require phantom power?

3) You might want to look into some sort of mixer (preferably powered) to use as a control device before going into your computer. Decent mixers will have both a trim & fader to control how hot the signal is going in. To just "plug" a mic straight into the soundcard leaves a lot to the gods of audio. It also gives you much more "on the fly" control of your signal if you have a real live fader you can flick with your finger.

HTH
MJhig wrote on 10/26/2003, 6:52 PM
I'm curious as to what makes one think moving the mic closer is not the answer.

This IS the answer. You want the signal to noise ratio to be heavily in favor of the signal. Signal = voice, noise = ambient sound in this case. The simplest and most effective way to achieve this is to move the mic close.

Place the mic within 6" of your mouth, be sure the mic boost is on "Advanced" and speak as you will while adjusting the mic slider in the RECORDING WINDOW (double-click the speaker icon in the systray > Options > Properties > Recording > OK.

Mute the mic channel in the PLAYBACK mixer window, all that does is send signal to the PC speakers or whatever you have the audio out of the soundcard connected to.

Others may point out this is not the best gear for this which is true, it's a high impedance mic and a budget soundcard but you can still get satisfactory results especially after editing in Vegas or Sound Forge.

MJ
riredale wrote on 10/26/2003, 11:42 PM
I remember six months ago I had this issue also. For some reason, now I don't. I don't remember what may have changed since then, but check this out: In the recording side of the mixer panel there is a "mic" slider, and under it is an "advanced" button. Inside there is a "20db boost" selection. Use it.

Oh, and also find a different mike from a friend--anything will do, as long as you can get it to plug in to your mic input on the PC. If the results are the same, it's the PC. If not, it's the first mic.

Good luck.
BillyBoy wrote on 10/26/2003, 11:48 PM
Another thing I'll just throw out since it happened to me. Several months ago I picked up a cheap 5-1 audio card just to mess around with it. It only has the minimum number of outputs so in effect one line serves both as the microphone in and also as the sub woofer out.

The rub is the card can't auto detect what's plugged in unless you remove the plug then insert it in again, then a wizard pops up. If I forget, I'm sitting here wondering how come It ain't letting me do a voice over. Well duh, because I forget to reset the 5-1 from sub woffer to mike.
DavidPJ wrote on 10/27/2003, 1:00 PM
Thanks for the suggestions.

The microphone I'm using is the cheap Dell-supplied mic, so I had my reservations about its quality. In my box of goodies I found a very small 25-year old lapel Sony condensor mic. I ran to the store for a replacement battery and tried it out. Much to my surprise the record volume was less than the non-powered mic from Dell. Apparantly the Sony mic has an even lower output than the Dell mic.

After experimentation with the Dell mic, the recording volume is fine when I hold the mic about 3 inches from my mouth and speak at a normal volume. This gives me the volume in the desired -6 to -3db range and sounds good.

I guess I had too high of expectations for the sensivity of this mic combined with the cheap Soundblaster card. Since Dell supplied the mic with a nice little stand that could rest anywhere, especially on the top of your monitor, I incorrectly assumed it would actually work well when placed at this location.

Since I plan to do little voice over work, I will just hold the mic for now. Maybe later I'll invest in a real hardware mixer. I am curious what others are using for a good microphone and sound card for voice recording. Thanks again.
Jsnkc wrote on 10/27/2003, 2:51 PM
"I incorrectly assumed it would actually work well when placed at this location."

Also using it in this location you can pick up noise from the monitor, it's best to have the mic as far away from the computer as possible so you won't pick up any noise. The best way to do this is to make your own recording box. Basically find a big cardboard box. Go to a fabrics or craft store and pick up some foam sheets and glue them to the inside of the box covering all the inside walls. You can go out and buy Professional foam for this also if you want to but it is pretty expensive. Anyways once you have the box made, put your mic inside the box and then record that way. A good rule of thumb that I learned back in radio school it to make a fist with your hand and put your fist so it touches the mic and on the other side of your fist, put your mouth. That is how far away from the mic you should be when you are talking into it.

This method is a really cheap way to cut down on outside noise and get the best audio possible from a mic (without spending tons of money). The next step is to build a full size wooden box that you can stand in and cover the inside with acoustic foam, but that seems like a little overkill for what you want to do.
Spot|DSE wrote on 10/28/2003, 9:03 AM
David,
You need some kind of mic pre to start with. (preamp) Your sound card has a noisy, crappy one built in. I've yet to see a built in sound card worth a crap for doing this. A mic pre allows you to use the line or mic in on your soundcard while keeping the output level of the card very low, powered by the output of the mic pre. A good pre need not be expensive. They can range from 50.00 for an acceptable one to 2500.00 per channel like the John Hardy M-1.
The mic should almost never be further from your mouth than 6" and never on-axis with your mouth, but rather to the slight side. Drive to Wendys and notice that the mics on their ordering system is never directly in front of the mouth. To have it there means lots of sibilance and plosive sounds.
There is a short article you might find of some use at http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/tutorials/Mics&DV.htm
DavidPJ wrote on 10/29/2003, 8:56 AM
Douglas,

Thanks for the information regarding microphone preamps and the link to your paper. It was very helpful.

I checked M-Audio and they have an inexpensive 2 channel preamp called Audio Buddy. This looks like a good solution for me.

Dave
Former user wrote on 10/29/2003, 9:56 AM
Use your camcorder to record the vo. It is a better quality mic and with a little practice you will find good placement for the best sound. Then capture either using the firewire or LINE IN on your soundcard.

DaveT2
DavidPJ wrote on 10/29/2003, 3:42 PM
DaveT2,

Thanks for the suggestions. That is exactly what I'm doing now temporarily instead of a mic plugged into the sound car. Although this worked, the tone difference between my camcorder mic and the stand alone mic was so great that there's no way I could smoothly integrate into my project that included voice from the camcorder.

I'm recording the voiceovers on the camcorder and capturing them. You have an interesting idea with running the camcorder audio out into the sound card LINE IN.

Thanks.
Dave
pb wrote on 10/29/2003, 11:45 PM
The suggestion regarding using your camera mic is a good one, provided you are using a GL1/2, VX2000 or XL1/S or something in that range. If you are using a higher end Sony camera such as the DSR 300/370 or 500/570 or D30/35/50 et al. beleive me when I tell you the crappy little shotgun they include with the camera head is truly awful. IT is okay for recording NAT sound if quality is not an issue but that's about all. I replace them with the very good Sony shotgun that costs around 300 or so US and whose model number escapes me at the moment. Favourite is the C74 but it is rather long and cumbersome for camera mounting.

Regarding mic placement if you are using an external, get a decent one, position it close to your mouth and speak past it. Another tip is to narrate while standing to get full use of your diaphram. Warm up your voice and diaphram by chanting ha-ho-hee and then counting decisively as far as you can without taking in more air. Listen to newsreaders on the larger networks -- you have to strain to hear them taking in air, same principle as bagpipes, sort of.

That's what they taught me when I attended Broadcast Announcer school over 25 years ago and that's how I do it to this day. You avoid the popping effect and are close enough to achieve adequate levels with the gain set low enough to avoid picking up nasty things such as computer hum. Yes, that is likely an old fashioned way to record VOs but I have been paid to do VOs for many years and have not has a reason to change my technique. I'm using an old Sony F-VX500 and a low end Shure at home, both work fine.

Buy Mr. Spotted Eagle's most excellent book to get some great tips on how to construct a very cost effective sound booth.

Peter
Spot|DSE wrote on 10/30/2003, 1:20 AM
The Audio Buddy is a great little tool, sounds clean and allows a very usable amount of gain prior to the noise floor becoming unusable. As long as you aren't trying to record the sound of ant feet on carpet, you should be very happy with it.