I just got off the phone with our tape supplier. Here's what she said, using Panasonic miniDV tapes as an example: Panasonic markets three different miniDV tape types -- Consumer, PQ and MQ. According to what the Panasonic representative told my contact, Consumer and PQ ("professional quality") tapes are identical, although the latter costs considerably more than the former. Slightly more attention may be given to quality control with the PQ tapes, but Panasonic was not forthcoming regarding what this entailed.

MQ tapes, according to Panasonic, have a different surface formulation than the Consumer and PQ tapes, and the backing is different, giving a better S/N ratio. According to Panasonic, the quality of the MQ miniDV tape "equals [the quality] of DVCAM tapes."

Jack

I have a Pani DVX100a and us MQ tapes only

I use the panasonic PQ Tapes. I have shot about 250 in the last year and a half and have only had problems (Frame Drop outs) once. I tend to trust what has worked well. A previous post indicates the consumer grade is qual to the PQ grade. I will pay slightly higher given my experience.

It seems strange, but I have seen more dropouts with the Panasonic Professional Mini DV than the Panasonic Mini DV that you can pick up at Wal Mart.

I am using Sony standard tapes and quite often get dropped frames. Anyone experienced this ? Any comments about TDK tapes ?

TDK stuff is I'm assured horrid. I really can't comment on one brand versus another, we sell stock and used to sell Panasonic until they had a few problem batches and then went to Sony but even that is far from grief proof.
I suspect that dirty heads and / or mixing tape formulations are more of an issue than the tape itself. I did a LOT of DVDs recently from DVCAM. All the bits that had dropout problems were from the first shoot of the day, early morning in winter with high risk of condensation.
DV25 really pushes the envelope and if you look very carefully I'm told you just cannot record a 60 minute tape without at least one dropout.
Bob.

Provided the tape can successfully record a signal/no signal (or an on/off or a 1/0) it's not going to make any difference what tape is used and there is no difference in picture quality. Where a difference may show is in the physical characteristics of the tape, that is, stability of the magnetic coating over time, stability of the binder and base plastic, etc. Failure here could result in the oxide flaking off, eventually, causing, of course, no signal.

Any "brand name tape" should be satisfactory. I have had no problems at all with any tapes (Fuji, TDK, Maxell, Panasonic, JVC, Sony) and I use a lot. I have to say, the least satisfactory brand I have encountered over the years has been Sony, but the present MiniDV tapes have been OK so far. Here in Oz the bulk of tapes sell for around $5 -6, but Sony have some for which they ask around $45 - 50! I don't think they sell many but it would be interesting to know how they try to justify the price.

Actually this is why the 3 Panasonic tapes differ in price. The DV tape is produced on a huge wheel of tape. The outer end of that real is the consumer level grade, as more tape comes off of that real, the next level of tape is used, and the inner part of the tape on that real is the MQ.

From what they said, the outer tape is thinner than the inner part and that is the biggest difference.

Has no Mag. ever done a tape test?

I asked the guys at my local supllier what the difference was between the $2.50 and the $8.oo tapes and they said nothing so I got some very cheap JVC tapes and never had a dropped frame but how significant is that? Can you have no dropped frames but poor color quality or is digital digital period?

I have found no difference in the quality of DV tapes--if they hold the digital 0's and 1's, they work.

For analog tapes, specifically VHS for duplication, I always buy "master" grade (for less than the cost of HQ-Professional (Master is higher than pro)), but this is because I buy them pre-cut to length in bulk. I haven't noticed a difference in these tapes--but the duplicators notice, particuarly with the cases. Fuji tape has the best reputation.

For this reason, I buy Fuji DV--"if" I get a decent price. Now adays I just use my DV tape once and then use it again for something else (since I capture to my system and back it up on secondary drives).

Aje--

It depends on what you're shooting. If it's the kid's birthday party then an inexpensive tape would do. If you're shooting a job for a paying client, then go for the $25 tape, because there is a difference. When I shoot for a paying client I use Sony Digital Master. It does cost more, but I am confident that I will have much smaller margin of error due to tape failure (dropouts).

When tape is made, it's produced in a massive, wide roll, like a giant roll of t.p.. The cheaper tapes are cut from the section nearer the edges of the roll. The high grade, more dependable, more expensive tape is cut from the center of the roll (kind of filet mignon).

Actually, it's kind of amusing that people willl spend thousands of dollars on their video equipment then skimp on something like video tape. To each is own, I guess.

Jay

I've been shooting with Sony Premium in two Canon XL1s' for two years without any problems except in a JVC mini DV deck (but I don't think that was the tape's fault). You can get them for about $3 now.
Randy

Thanks everybody.
I´ve now bought 2 PanasonicDVC Professional for shooting only
I then stick Sony premíum for back ups after editeding.
I agree with all answers and will just mention the only difference I´ve heard from a dealer is that the mechanism in more expensive tapes are better but I don´t know for sure and it seems no one else do either.
Aje

I hate to add confusion but I think everyone here would agree that rule number one is "don't switch between brands (or at least wet and dry) stick with the same brand/kind of tape".
Randy

Aje--

I hope you saw what Randy said!

Do not mix tape brands Sony and Panasonic! That will muddy up your record heads!

Jay

Randy wrote: I've been shooting with Sony Premium in two Canon XL1s' for two years without any problems except in a JVC mini DV deck (but I don't think that was the tape's fault). You can get them for about $3 now.

I had the same problem and have switched from the Sony Excellence to the Panasonic MQ tape as a result. JVC tech support told me that they do not recommend any Sony tape for their mini-DV deck. When pressed for a recommendation he told me: "Any manufacturer but Sony". I picked Panasonic MQ.

There is a compatibility problem between Sony and the JVC deck. This has been reported here by Randy and others. My "bad" Sony tape played perfectly in my TRV-900 and I pulled an analog output just fine but this one tape could not be read reliably by the JVC deck. Others from the same batch that I bought from Tape Resources were flawless in the deck.

Go figure. But I have switched to the Panasonic MQ and am hoping I won't see a repeat of the problem.

If you are still having problems with your JVC deck I would check your wiring to your house/editing bay. Since I have moved I have had no problem with the infamous "glitch" with my SR-VS30U. I think the problem is due to wiring because my power surge protector (Kensington Master Piece Plus) always showed a red light on the "wiring ok" light at the old location. Now it shows green and I don't get the glitches any more. I reported this to Ken Freed (the JVC guy dealing with this problem) but haven't heard the results of their testing yet.
Randy

I have one of the earliest JVC decks, and use Sony exclusively. Never had a tape problem on either cami or deck.

The deck, on the other hand, is crap. Constantly having electrical and mechanical problems totally unrelated to the tape itself.

Been repaired, AT MY EXPENSE, although I complained about oddities well before warrany died. Should have sent it in on the first anomily.

After downlaoding to HD I rewind the tape and start recording again without recording how many times I do this.This thread raises the question; How many times can/should a DV tape be used?

Mike S

I've had occasional pixelation when using more than once but there are people here that use them several times. At only $3 a tape though it's hard for me to justify the risk if I'm shooting anything of importance.
Randy

For the type of video production that most of us shoot, there is absolutely no difference except the price. We, in general, don't tend to reuse tapes. We shoot, we download, then the tape goes on a shelf or box for storage. As a result of this light use, the durability of the coating or "robustness" of the tape stock is of little value. If, on the other hand you tend to reuse tapes until you can see through them, then go for the more expensive stock.

Most of the stuff you read in the marketing hype is just that - marketing hype. Signal to noise, for example, is an analog measurement and means nothing in the digital realm. I laugh when a marketer tries to say it does. The most ridiculous one is the tape manufacturer that claims you will get better color if you use their MiniDV tapes. Digital is digital, and the data are identical no matter what tape brand it's written to.

Don't believe anything your tape supplier says - they only know the marketing hype and want to sell the product with the highest margins.

There is ample anecdotal evidence that mixing tape brands can be bad for your camera. Yes, there are some people who have been doing it for years without a single problem, but there's enough who have experienced head problems within hours of switching tape brands that it just doesn't sound like a good idea.

For me, I use Sony tapes (the $3 version) in my Sony cameras. I've never had a problem.

Maybe we should make a distinction here between "dropped frames" and "dropouts". And feel free to jump in here and correct me! But "dropped frames" occur during the capture process from your DV source into Vegas. They are not necessarily caused by bad tape, but instead by lack of PC horsepower... for example, inadequate CPU or hard disk throughput can result in the inability to write data to disk at the speed at which it's coming off the tape, hence frames are dropped to keep up. If you're experiencing dropped frames, try minimizing the number of running processes on your PC while capturing (like killing your antivirus software.)

"Dropouts," on the other hand, are irretrivable losses of picture information due to physical tape read problems. They can be caused by a variety of reasons, like tape wear, flaking, dirty heads, misalignment, weak coercivity, etc. There's not much you can do about recovering tape-related dropouts, but if it happens with multiple tapes you should get your playback device cleaned and serviced.

Finally, "dropouts" may cause "dropped frames", I would assume.

That said, I've been using JVC DV-60ME tapes for a couple years now with no problems whatsoever. (They run about $6 each at Best Buy, but smart shoppers can get them from www.ecost.com for $1.90 each.) I'm not a "re-user", and generally only record on a tape once and then archive it. If you're going to be doing excessive multiple passes, you may want to invest in a tape with the highest physical quality. Of course as has been mentioned, 1's and 0's are 1's and 0's regardless of what tape is holding them.

And one more clarifing point... several people mentioned seeing "$45" DV tapes, but no one clarified the fact that these tapes differ from other less expensive ones in that they have a microchip contained within them for storing edit information and other details provided by the camera. It's more than just a tape, so make sure you're comparing apples to apples when price shopping.