The guitars sound like they are out of phase, which is cool, but have you tried it in mono to make sure it sounds right there too?

Ok.....put on your seatbelt...we're going for a ride!!!!

First off....sounds a lot like Incabus.

I'm hoping you're not the vocalist? The vocals need to be re-done, they're totally out of tune, being flat most of the time. Also, they could use a boast around 4-5Khz in the mix, to bring up the presence. That is unless you're trying to hide those out of tune vocals? They currently have that "blanket" sound over them, like they're being masked.

The drums need some work in the mix. The cymbals are too upfront in the mix, and the kick and snare tend to get lost a lot, therefore loosing the drive behind the entire song.

Despite the earlier criticism about the guitars being out of phase, I actually like this and feel the phaser/flanger effect you have on them fits the song well. It gives it a cool Korn kind of sounding crunch guitar with an errie kind of feel.

The chorus- Where is it? Your chorus definitely needs some work.....right now, it fits well in the song, but it is more of a "Pre-chorus". It's almost like it's lacking the chorus following it. After you listen to a song for the first time, you should always go away humming the chorus in your head. I couldn't figure out "What?" to hum after listening to it, because nothing stuck in my head. It was kinda like having sex without finishing....a tremendous build up, with no release. :-)~ Sorry....best analogy I could think of.

Red

"Despite the earlier criticism about the guitars being out of phase, I actually like this and feel the phaser/flanger effect you have on them fits the song well."

I didn't say I didn't like it, I said he should check what it sounds like in mono. Chances are something vital may be cancelled out.

The song is not tight at all. Any minute I feel like the whole band is about to fall apart. Did you guys use a click-track?

I thought the vocals were awesome.

0:59 second guitar coming in clicks.

Is this an intro to another song? There is no build up anywhere.

Post another link when the song is mastered, I would like to check it out. Take care.

"The guitars sound like they are out of phase, which is cool"

Sorry, I miss explained that in my earlier post: Actually can you explain how 2 seperate guitars are "out of phase". Is this what you really mean? Because I was talking about the phaser effect on the guitar....which in no way has nothing to do with 2 seperate guitars being in phase with one another and cancelling in the mix. Plus the guitars are panned hard right and hard left respectively, so phase cancellation will be very difficult. I'm wondering how you can hear phase cancellation between two instruments that are panned hard left and hard right? Can you give us some insight of what you are talking about? To get phase cancellation, the 2 signals need to be nearly identical with one another. I don't think the performance was that tight that every harmonic lined up perfect.

Ah ANOTHER metal group....
do wee need more metal groups?
Who knows....I know my answer...but that's neither here nor there.

Everything is fine...but it sounds as if you HAD to hide the vocals a bit.
Why?...because ...well....he stinks.

Sounds like the lead singer of THE SQUEEZE joined a metal group.
He's not right for the power happening behind him. He's a bit cheesy and wimpy.
If they could be told...a new singer would be in order.

I don't agree with HAVING TO BE ABLE TO HUM A TUNE AFTER HEARING IT. That shlock is too predictable and to me...is the DEMISE OF "NEW" MUSIC TODAY. The sign of a simple mind needs this.
To write a hummable tune today is..well...too easy and overdone (even though the metal gtr progressions in this are also overdone).

as for the recording, it's great...and i see why you had to bury the vocalist...good call.

JoeD

Hey - well, err, cheers for all the feedback I guess...

o Yes We did use a click - feels tight to me?!

o There's meant to be a click as the guitar comes in a 57secs - it's called an effect, I think I might have noticed it...

o Incubus - why thank you.

o Yep the guitars are indeed put through two seperate phasers and yes it does work in Mono (but creates an different phaser pattern ;) - and no, the guitars are not "out-of-phase" becauase then they would sound very odd.

And finally - I used SX the other day and my god, I'm changing DAW software...

Vocals could use some autotuning.

Well, if it was only guitar doubles it would work just fine, but these guitars are so processed that cancellation does occur. Listen to the track in stereo at 02:22:00 for 10 seconds. The guitars are very audible. Now combine the track into mono and listen to the same part. Huh? Where'd the guitars go??

I noticed it beforehand because the guitars sound sort of like they're from the surround-channel in a Dolby Surround track played back in stereo (which gives sort of a surround effect even in stereo).

Here's a fun idea!

Let's take a shot at "mastering" the tune. If Jues agrees, we can each spend an hour or two and give it a quick shot. It won't be like a mastering house would do, but would give some interesting sounds to consider. Anyone game?

RiRo

"but these guitars are so processed that cancellation does occur"

Oh really? Maybe you need to read up a bit on what phase cancellation is, because that statement is really an oxy moron of "what" and "how" phase cancellation occurs. I'm not saying that phase cancellation doesn't occur....but I will say, it doesn't occur due to individual over processing of seperate guitar parts. Please, could you give this forum a definition of "phase cancellation", because I don't think you truly understand it and that is why I was asking you earlier for what you where leading too? I thought maybe there was something I didn't understand, but now that I see you elaborate even further, it clearly shows you don't understand how phase cancellation occurs, and doesn't make your advice very credible.

Have you listened to the part of the track I wrote about?

Of course I could be wrong, it's not like I'm doing this for a living ;)

But there is NO WAY you can tell me that the track is ok for mono. Just listen at 02:22:00 like i said.

But then again, has anyone on this forum EVER seen Rednroll roll over and say, "Oh, you're right!". Seems that just isn't your style.

You're right....it isn't my style, because I'm educated enough to know what I'm talking about.....No!!! I haven't taken the time to listen to it in mono. But as I mentioned, you may be right that they ARE cancelling....how would you fix that genious? Undo the processing of the phaser?.....you would be WRONG then...and that's what I'm saying. What's the definition of "Phase Cancellation" for the third time and how does it occur? Why don't you just simply answer the question???? or is it because you don't understand "phase cancellation" like I'm pointing out??? What's your suggestion to make them MONO compatible??? Be able to answer the questions in this post....THEN!!...you might see me "roll over" and say "you're right."

Until then.....you're WRONG!!!

you could easily make phase canellation by processing the guitars. Reverb, chorus, even eq'd signals played back WITH the original signal will cause phase cancellation.
The guitars might have been multiple mic'ed too. All sorts of reasons for it to cause phase cancellation.

hit the mono button on your console ( the hardware thing I supposedly dont have ) and you will hear it.

We're talking about 2 SEPERATE guitars and 2 SEPERATE performances, where there are different harmonics on each, and also DIFFERENT effects on each and each one is panned hard Left and hard right. Your explanation would work for "ONE" guitar...not 2 "SEPERATE" performances. Can YOU give the definition of "phase cancellation" either? I'm just asking a simple question aint I? I guess I'm just trying to learn from you audio experts?

I dont know that hes talking about two separate performances. If he is then you are right. Not even megadave can play two tracks so exactly the same that they could possibly phase cancel.

However, you can hear at least one of the guitars comb filtered AND moving in and out as if there was a phase problem and not just a phase effect

phase cancellation can occur when more than one instance of the same source are combined, for example two mics on an instrument, the headphone leaking into that instrument's mic or simply enabling a track effect in vegas when playing with a copy of that same track

And I totally agree with you. But the original comment was that the "2" guitars are phase cancelling each other......and like you said....it would take a heck of a performance to make that happen, as is what I explained earlier in a post. So I was asking for more information on this.

Remember this statement:
"The guitars sound like they are out of phase"
I believe "Guitars" would mean more than ONE.

I actually re-downloaded the song and mixed it into mono and compared the 2. I've decided that Roger74, not only doesn't know what phase cancellation is, but is Deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other. The guitars DO NOT cancel each other out, and are still in the mix. What happens is that the stereo Effects get reduced and the image becomes narrow....exactly what you would expect when combining into mono. The Reverb on the singers voice is reduced tremendously.....is that because it's out of phase also? NO!!!! that's what happens to Stereo effects when mixed into mono.

Can I have an AMEN!?

"Can I have an AMEN!? "

you can have your amen about the two guitars

I think the stereo effect IS causing some phase cancellation, but were just speculating, lets hear from him how he did it. Actually either way it is phase cancellation though it may be intentional

Duhhhhhh....what do you think a "phaser" is?

I think you could use some slaps with that amen

Hey Rednroll,
You're definitely one of the more vocal members of the forum and have lots of good feedback - and opinions! ;)

Is any of your work available for listening/download?
I'd love to hear your production and mixing style, methods.

(And please, please don't take this as any kind of smarmy "put your money where your mouth is" kind of jab - I'm a genuinely interested fellow professional. I really like hearing other people's work, particularly that done on SF products.)
bgc

Well most of the stuff I work on isn't my own, so I'm not too liberal with uploading it on the web. And as far as my own stuff...I'm too much of a perfectionist and keep changing stuff and never finish the pre-production process. That is on my "tudo" list of things to change.

I do have a few tracks of an artist I've produced and co-wrote some of the songs. They owe me some back money, so I guess I rightfully own that stuff...so I guess I could share that and I have some commercial production stuff too.

Now where and how do I upload it? I don't have a website or server space?

Red