Mono To Simulated 5.1

goshep wrote on 6/27/2004, 9:17 PM
I have some cheesy mono sound effects that I would like to enhance with simulated stereo or surround. I'd like to then archive these "re-mixed" sounds in an effects library. I'm a little confused on AC-3 encoding. The manual provides absolutely no help and Spot's book, while informative, has left me scratching my head.
If you're out there Spot, you mention on page 249 that monitoring of AC-3 is not possible in Vegas. Is there a way to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish? I assume I could simply remix these effects in a project and then encode to AC-3 for DVD but I'd like to have them available in a file as remixes that I can pull out and use on any project. Does any of that make sense? I think you've mentioned that encoding/decoding of AC-3 causes a loss of quality? The quality of these 16 bit mono 20kHz sounds couldn't possibly get any worse. I've been able to sweeten these sounds up quite a bit, now I just want to KEEP them that way and be able to drag them back to the timeline for later projects as if they were MP3s, OGGs, WAVES, etc..

Comments

JJKizak wrote on 6/28/2004, 5:29 AM
If you have Sound Forge you can clean up the sound, change the sample rate, convert to stereo, change the volume, repair clipped peaks, etc. Store them somewhere on a hard drive in a sound file (wav) then use them as needed then when creating the project if the project is 5.1 set your 5.1 data then render to AC-3. You can move that sound all over the place in the 5.1 mode. As Spot says V5 will not accept AC-3 because AC3 is a streaming codec.

JJK
goshep wrote on 6/28/2004, 6:36 AM
Ouch. It'll cost me $400 to remix my $9 sound effects CD. I don't suppose there is a discount for Vegas users?

Vegas has a pretty impressive box-o-audio tools. I think I'll stick with that. I just need some suggestions for best possible remix.

Thanks for the response.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/28/2004, 6:51 AM
Chris, if I understand what you're asking, why not use Vegas to "sweeten" the audio and render it to a .wav file. That should accomplish what you're after, wouldn't it?

Jay
mrs_smiths_lad wrote on 6/28/2004, 3:09 PM
email the required sound effects to a willing Sound Forge owner have him/her turn them in to stereo and email them back... what are friends for ?
Nathan_Shane wrote on 6/28/2004, 3:27 PM
After reading his post, it sounds as though he's not looking to keep a stereo soundfile of these sounds, he's looking to keep a 5.1 soundfile to use later on.

I had wondered this as well, but according to everyones replies, while Vegas may be capable of producing an AC3 file with the encoder, it is not capable of bringing this created AC3 file back into Vegas to use at a later time.

This would mean that the options are either saving a Vegas project for each 5.1 mix created, or just start from scratch.

Which leads to a very good question...the future of audio. Seeing that surround audio is more quickly becoming the future of many cd's, is it technically possible to have Vegas (or any video/audio application) be able to import and use AC3 files?

I could seriously envision a future need for users to be able to use (purchase) surround media files in their productions.

goshep wrote on 6/28/2004, 5:00 PM
Bingo Jay AND NShane!

At first I was going to settle for mixing a stereo simulation but then I found that the 5.1 mix combined with a few effects was much more impressive. I then realized I could mix these effects within my project and then encode to AC-3 for export to DVD. I almost felt silly for asking in the first place but then I thought about how much more convenient it would be to have favorite sounds dialed and ready to be dropped into the timeline. Then it seemed plain silly that Vegas can encode AC-3 but won't allow it to be imported back into the timeline. Again, I think I remember Spot making a point about this being inefficient but I don't remember specifically why. Nor do I understand why such a great tool is not backwards compatible. Bear in mind I am new to all this so I'm probably overlooking some glaringly obvious reason why it is not possible to do what it is I'm trying to do. I'm just glad someone understands what I was trying to express.
Nathan_Shane wrote on 6/28/2004, 5:15 PM
I was just checking the Vegas specs, and they are right. AC3 is supported only as an output format (with the AC3 encoder), and not as import format.

Since the AC3 format is an encoded audio stream, technically it requires a decoder to play the file back. Therefore, I suppose it could be technically possible for Sony to allow Vegas to stream an AC3 file to a sound-card which supported AC3 playback...but then again, the streaming requirements may be too much.

I would also tend to think that decoding an AC3 file in real-time within software might be too CPU intensive as well, especially with video.

I don't know for certain...can someone else chime in here for a more detailed tech-response in regards to software programs streaming/decoding AC3 files?

Nathan
Spot|DSE wrote on 6/28/2004, 5:37 PM
There are already surround sounds available as 5.1 files, but they are wavs to be laid on the timeline. Qup Arts has a library, I worked on it. Ilio also has some sounds, and I believe Big Fish has some too.
Anyway, sorry for not catching this sooner.
Of course AC3 can be read on the timeline, Ulead's MSP has done this for a year or so now. But, I doubt Sony will go there, due to copyright/piracy issues. It also sounds terrible when rendered back to .wav format.
BeSweet can convert these...
You could always render to 6 channels of .wav, and maintain integrity and quality of the file.
goshep wrote on 6/28/2004, 7:08 PM
This is something I find fascinating and am going to have to spend some time learning. I'd like to learn enough to have a basic working knowledge. Spot, I'm certain you and others here have devoted many, many years to mastering this art. I'm only scratching the surface but as always, I appreciate the patience and support from the community.

THANK YOU!!!

P.S.
Anyone have any useful reference links for this type of project?