more after effects woes
belovedmonster
wrote on 7/23/2003, 11:35 AM
Comments
filmy
wrote on 7/23/2003, 1:14 PM
I am not really sure what issues you are having with AE because I also use AE and VV and I am not sure I have ever had the problems you have. COuld you post your specs? I mean what file size/project size you are creating in AE and how you render it and than how you bring it into VV.
In lieu of telling that I can suggest that when you encode for online just crop out your borders before you render.
In lieu of telling that I can suggest that when you encode for online just crop out your borders before you render.
belovedmonster
wrote on 7/23/2003, 2:19 PM
im just using the standard DV PAL settings for both vegas and after effects. Ive captured the AVIs with vegas and then when i import them into after effects they are not the right size, the video for some reason is rectangular so i get borders left and right, thats not a problem tho i just stretch the movie out to fill the whole composition and it looks fine.
I then load up the rendered AVI file of my special effect into Vegas and there is black borders left and right. So i go into the clips crop area and right click and do make the same as output ratio or whatever its called... that then makes it the correct size for the video. However the quality goes funny, i cant really describe it but it goes flickery and very liney and not viewable.
I then load up the rendered AVI file of my special effect into Vegas and there is black borders left and right. So i go into the clips crop area and right click and do make the same as output ratio or whatever its called... that then makes it the correct size for the video. However the quality goes funny, i cant really describe it but it goes flickery and very liney and not viewable.
belovedmonster
wrote on 7/24/2003, 7:52 AM
can no one help me? or is this a problem only i have encountered?
If i open the after effects clips in premiere and then render a new AVI (hopefully before it crashes) then i use that AVI it loads up fine. But at the mo having to zoom in on the clips is really making them bad. Not just a slight loss in quality but making them become and liney like as if the interlacing doesnt work properly or something. If its help to anyone i can take some stills to show you what im on about here.
I wonder if its just an effect of zooming in, becos i did it on a seperate clips i had captured in vegas and although not as bad, that clip also saw some distortion with choppy lines become very much apparent when there was movement.
If i open the after effects clips in premiere and then render a new AVI (hopefully before it crashes) then i use that AVI it loads up fine. But at the mo having to zoom in on the clips is really making them bad. Not just a slight loss in quality but making them become and liney like as if the interlacing doesnt work properly or something. If its help to anyone i can take some stills to show you what im on about here.
I wonder if its just an effect of zooming in, becos i did it on a seperate clips i had captured in vegas and although not as bad, that clip also saw some distortion with choppy lines become very much apparent when there was movement.
videoman69
wrote on 7/24/2003, 9:23 AM
It sounds like you are forcing the video to
square pixels.
Are you using the PAL NTSC default template?
You should use : PAL D1/DV, 720x576
Pixel Aspect Ratio: D1/DV PAL
square pixels.
Are you using the PAL NTSC default template?
You should use : PAL D1/DV, 720x576
Pixel Aspect Ratio: D1/DV PAL
filmy
wrote on 7/24/2003, 9:57 AM
I have tried to get what you describe using the steps in your example but I did not find any black bars on the sides.
Just to check - In After Effects check the project settings. For what you describe they should be at D1/PAL with the aspect ratio of 1.07. Now on your footage do the same check - right click on the footage and you will get a pop up window. Choose 'interpret footage" > "main" than go to the bottom and you will see "Other options". Make sure the Pixel Aspect Ratio for the footage is correct. For PAL DV footage it should be set at D1/DV PAL (1.07).
When you export you project make sure the default "project settings" is selected for the export options. I use the Main Concept DV codec when I export from AE but I don't think that would make a differance if you used the default MS DV codec or even uncompressed.
In VV I made a new PAL project with the default "PAL DV (720 x576, 25.000 fps)" template. I brought in the AE rendered PAL DV footage, dropped onto the timeline and there were no problems such as you describe.
HOWEVER...if I change the properties of the PAL DV AVI file to a square pixel aspect - viola!! You have your black bars on the sides. So my guess is that somewhere along the way you have somthing set for square pixel.
Just to check - In After Effects check the project settings. For what you describe they should be at D1/PAL with the aspect ratio of 1.07. Now on your footage do the same check - right click on the footage and you will get a pop up window. Choose 'interpret footage" > "main" than go to the bottom and you will see "Other options". Make sure the Pixel Aspect Ratio for the footage is correct. For PAL DV footage it should be set at D1/DV PAL (1.07).
When you export you project make sure the default "project settings" is selected for the export options. I use the Main Concept DV codec when I export from AE but I don't think that would make a differance if you used the default MS DV codec or even uncompressed.
In VV I made a new PAL project with the default "PAL DV (720 x576, 25.000 fps)" template. I brought in the AE rendered PAL DV footage, dropped onto the timeline and there were no problems such as you describe.
HOWEVER...if I change the properties of the PAL DV AVI file to a square pixel aspect - viola!! You have your black bars on the sides. So my guess is that somewhere along the way you have somthing set for square pixel.
belovedmonster
wrote on 7/24/2003, 1:03 PM
im using the PAL D1/DV, 720x576 D1/DV PAL settings in after effects already, i have tried both the PAL standard and PAL DV settings for vegas, both with the PAL DV pixel aspect ratio.
In Vegas the video becomes "wavey" in that the edge of people start to take on a distorted wave like appearence which ruins the footage. It remains like that once i render the finished movie. It seems to do this whether or not i resize the clip to match the aspect of vegas.
In Vegas the video becomes "wavey" in that the edge of people start to take on a distorted wave like appearence which ruins the footage. It remains like that once i render the finished movie. It seems to do this whether or not i resize the clip to match the aspect of vegas.
belovedmonster
wrote on 7/24/2003, 1:09 PM
winrockpost
wrote on 7/24/2003, 1:11 PM
Are you importing to aftereffects uncompressed ,then rendering out of aftereffects uncompressed ? If not,, that could be at least part of the problem
filmy
wrote on 7/24/2003, 1:38 PM
>>>im using the PAL D1/DV, 720x576 D1/DV PAL settings in after effects already, i have tried both the PAL standard and PAL DV settings for vegas, both with the PAL DV pixel aspect ratio.<<<
Ok, but did you re-check your *footage* and see if that was set to the correct pixel aspect. In looking at your screen grab those black bars are exactly what I mentioned in my post *if* you set the footage pixel aspect to square in a PAL DV project.
As for the wavey part - this could be an interlace/non interlace issue. Keep in mind that in AE you have a butt load of options such as motion blur, frame blending, shutter angle and so on. You also have plug-ins that could affect things as well (The Reelsmart Fieldskit and/or RETimer series of filters for example). When you bring it into VV hat happens is that an estemated guess happens as to what the footage actually is. More than one time I have brought in progressive footage and VV reads it as interlaced. Same goes for misreading the pixel aspect ratio of some things. I would check you footage as well as your setting for motion blur/frame blending/progressive and so on.
the only other thing I could suggest is to upload maybe a 5 - 10 second untouched piece of footage and let someone (me?) put it into AE and than render out and import into VV to see if the same thing happens.
Ok, but did you re-check your *footage* and see if that was set to the correct pixel aspect. In looking at your screen grab those black bars are exactly what I mentioned in my post *if* you set the footage pixel aspect to square in a PAL DV project.
As for the wavey part - this could be an interlace/non interlace issue. Keep in mind that in AE you have a butt load of options such as motion blur, frame blending, shutter angle and so on. You also have plug-ins that could affect things as well (The Reelsmart Fieldskit and/or RETimer series of filters for example). When you bring it into VV hat happens is that an estemated guess happens as to what the footage actually is. More than one time I have brought in progressive footage and VV reads it as interlaced. Same goes for misreading the pixel aspect ratio of some things. I would check you footage as well as your setting for motion blur/frame blending/progressive and so on.
the only other thing I could suggest is to upload maybe a 5 - 10 second untouched piece of footage and let someone (me?) put it into AE and than render out and import into VV to see if the same thing happens.
belovedmonster
wrote on 7/24/2003, 2:34 PM
i dont think i follow you anymore.
I have been playing around with it some more and ive confirmed that its only doing this once i resize the after effects footage. I have to resize it becos for some reason the two sets of DV PAL arent the same size. But doing so is giving me this effect!
Ive tried rendering the after effects as DV PAL as well as rendering it AVI with no compression and in both cases im getting this distortion as soon as i make them the same size.
Im not using any filters on after effects other than using a mask and then doing a slight change of the brightness, so i dont think thats the cause.
The fact premiere plays the after effects footage full screen i think is significant, theres obviously something adobe software is doing that vegas doesnt. As ive said there is the soluction that i can open the footage in premiere and then render a new AVI of it, as this plays perfect full screen in vegas. So why do premiere AVIs work but not After Effects?
I have been playing around with it some more and ive confirmed that its only doing this once i resize the after effects footage. I have to resize it becos for some reason the two sets of DV PAL arent the same size. But doing so is giving me this effect!
Ive tried rendering the after effects as DV PAL as well as rendering it AVI with no compression and in both cases im getting this distortion as soon as i make them the same size.
Im not using any filters on after effects other than using a mask and then doing a slight change of the brightness, so i dont think thats the cause.
The fact premiere plays the after effects footage full screen i think is significant, theres obviously something adobe software is doing that vegas doesnt. As ive said there is the soluction that i can open the footage in premiere and then render a new AVI of it, as this plays perfect full screen in vegas. So why do premiere AVIs work but not After Effects?
belovedmonster
wrote on 7/24/2003, 3:13 PM
I have fixed it now i think.
filmy
wrote on 7/24/2003, 3:40 PM
Ok, I am not sure you are following me fully. You haven't given an answer to if you have checked your footage , not the project settings.
here is what I said earlier in this thread -
Just to check - In After Effects check the project settings. For what you describe they should be at D1/PAL with the aspect ratio of 1.07. Now on your footage do the same check - right click on the footage and you will get a pop up window. Choose 'interpret footage" > "main" than go to the bottom and you will see "Other options". Make sure the Pixel Aspect Ratio for the footage is correct. For PAL DV footage it should be set at D1/DV PAL (1.07).
Than I asked if you did the same check in VV because if I export the PAL DV AVI out of AE and bring it into VV with the default PAL DV settings there are no issues. But is I, in VV, right click on the footage in the time line and change the footage pixel aspect to square I get the black frames on the sides. So what I am syaing is that in AE and rendering out as PAL DV there is no size problem at all in bringing it into VV. BUT if I change the footage, not the project, pixel setting to square the problem you describe, in reguards to size, happens.
Now what I said about the wavey thing - Ok, so you establish you are not using other plug-ins other than a little cc and a matte. BUT - basic options in AE could be the problem with the waves you are getting because it looks to me like it could be an interlace type if thing. But let me go back to the first thing I said - when you have your footage on in the project window right click on the footage and you will get a pop up window. Choose 'interpret footage" > "main". look at the "Fields and Pulldown" setting. Is it the correct field setting? Off means your footage is progressive. Lower and/or upper field means just what is says...for DV is is normally at "lower Field First" but in PAL I believe it should be set at "Upper field first" but please correct me if that is not right. Is the remove pulldown set to "off"? And yes, when you are there check the Pixel Aspect Ratio. It should be set to D1/DV PAL.
Now this is *very* important to check your footage here because AE will import square pixel footage at D1/DV sizes as "non-Square" thusly you would have to set it to "Square". However if you are bringing in DV footage it should be fine. One other thing that is important is this - is your composition window set correct for disply? Check by looking at the "Pixel Aspect Correction" setting for the preview window. (And this goes for VV as well - except it is called "Simulate Device Aspect Ratio": Right click on the preview window > select Simulate Device Aspect Ratio if it isn't checked)
Now in AE on the timeline, so to speak, there are little buttons for the layers...they are normally on top next to the "Layer Names". The "M" button when turned on adds Motion Blur. To the left of the "M" there is a little film clip looking icon. When that is turned on it will blend the frames. These can be added to each layer by clicking the ckeckbox or they can be turned on for the entire project by clicking on the icon. If you are not changing the speed normally you would have the "Frame Blending" turned off. The motion blur is used mostly for animations. In your case you mentioned adding a mask so perhaps you want to motion blur on that layer only. I was trying to say before that is you render wth these settings and than render in VV with the same settings, or take out the settings so to speak, you could be adding problems.(IE - bring in with upper field, render with lower field, bring intoVV with upper, render with lower)
Now for the redundant part - when you add to render queue you can change any of these settings. So provided you have the settings you want in your composition you could leave everything based "Current Settings" or "Composition Settings". The only things you would need to click on in that case would be the location to render to (Output to:) and the format you are outputting to (Output Module:)
Now when it is done you bring that footage into VV. And as I said - VV does not always read the files correctly so if you have those black bars on the sides and you are positive you exported correctly my first guess is that VV is reading the file as "Square". (In my AE PAL rendered test the VV media pool window gives the read out as "720x576x24, 25.000 fps interlaced, 00:00:10:00 DV") Now to check the media - not the project settings - you can drop the file onto the timeline and right click. Choose "properties". Form the pop up window choose "media". Now check the "Field Order" and the "Pixel Aspect Ratio". Are they set correctly?
Again...if you could upload a 5 - 10 second portion of your original captured file somewhere I could download it and bring it into AE and render out and see if I get the same results. For you maybe the project settings are correct but I suspect another setting is causing the problems.
here is what I said earlier in this thread -
Just to check - In After Effects check the project settings. For what you describe they should be at D1/PAL with the aspect ratio of 1.07. Now on your footage do the same check - right click on the footage and you will get a pop up window. Choose 'interpret footage" > "main" than go to the bottom and you will see "Other options". Make sure the Pixel Aspect Ratio for the footage is correct. For PAL DV footage it should be set at D1/DV PAL (1.07).
Than I asked if you did the same check in VV because if I export the PAL DV AVI out of AE and bring it into VV with the default PAL DV settings there are no issues. But is I, in VV, right click on the footage in the time line and change the footage pixel aspect to square I get the black frames on the sides. So what I am syaing is that in AE and rendering out as PAL DV there is no size problem at all in bringing it into VV. BUT if I change the footage, not the project, pixel setting to square the problem you describe, in reguards to size, happens.
Now what I said about the wavey thing - Ok, so you establish you are not using other plug-ins other than a little cc and a matte. BUT - basic options in AE could be the problem with the waves you are getting because it looks to me like it could be an interlace type if thing. But let me go back to the first thing I said - when you have your footage on in the project window right click on the footage and you will get a pop up window. Choose 'interpret footage" > "main". look at the "Fields and Pulldown" setting. Is it the correct field setting? Off means your footage is progressive. Lower and/or upper field means just what is says...for DV is is normally at "lower Field First" but in PAL I believe it should be set at "Upper field first" but please correct me if that is not right. Is the remove pulldown set to "off"? And yes, when you are there check the Pixel Aspect Ratio. It should be set to D1/DV PAL.
Now this is *very* important to check your footage here because AE will import square pixel footage at D1/DV sizes as "non-Square" thusly you would have to set it to "Square". However if you are bringing in DV footage it should be fine. One other thing that is important is this - is your composition window set correct for disply? Check by looking at the "Pixel Aspect Correction" setting for the preview window. (And this goes for VV as well - except it is called "Simulate Device Aspect Ratio": Right click on the preview window > select Simulate Device Aspect Ratio if it isn't checked)
Now in AE on the timeline, so to speak, there are little buttons for the layers...they are normally on top next to the "Layer Names". The "M" button when turned on adds Motion Blur. To the left of the "M" there is a little film clip looking icon. When that is turned on it will blend the frames. These can be added to each layer by clicking the ckeckbox or they can be turned on for the entire project by clicking on the icon. If you are not changing the speed normally you would have the "Frame Blending" turned off. The motion blur is used mostly for animations. In your case you mentioned adding a mask so perhaps you want to motion blur on that layer only. I was trying to say before that is you render wth these settings and than render in VV with the same settings, or take out the settings so to speak, you could be adding problems.(IE - bring in with upper field, render with lower field, bring intoVV with upper, render with lower)
Now for the redundant part - when you add to render queue you can change any of these settings. So provided you have the settings you want in your composition you could leave everything based "Current Settings" or "Composition Settings". The only things you would need to click on in that case would be the location to render to (Output to:) and the format you are outputting to (Output Module:)
Now when it is done you bring that footage into VV. And as I said - VV does not always read the files correctly so if you have those black bars on the sides and you are positive you exported correctly my first guess is that VV is reading the file as "Square". (In my AE PAL rendered test the VV media pool window gives the read out as "720x576x24, 25.000 fps interlaced, 00:00:10:00 DV") Now to check the media - not the project settings - you can drop the file onto the timeline and right click. Choose "properties". Form the pop up window choose "media". Now check the "Field Order" and the "Pixel Aspect Ratio". Are they set correctly?
Again...if you could upload a 5 - 10 second portion of your original captured file somewhere I could download it and bring it into AE and render out and see if I get the same results. For you maybe the project settings are correct but I suspect another setting is causing the problems.