Hi,

I own the MOTU 828 Firewire interface, and have managed to get it work. Sadly though, I don't feel I can recomend it as the drivers and 'support' have been a real let down.

I am currently using an older set of drivers for it which seem to work without problems. The current release of drivers do not work on any of the three winXP systems (three different PCs, three different Firewire cards and three different Firewire cables) I tried them on. I thought that it might be a windows XP issue, but they didn't work on a WinME systems I've tried. In all cases the audio playback was plagued by a constant distortion that made it unusable. When I emailed MOTU to let them know, and ask for suggestions to the problem - no reply.

MOTU do not seem to post the older drivers on their site, so I've no idea what you're supposed to do if you don't already have the old drivers (I bought my 828 a few months ago). (NOTE: the same drivers are used for the 828 and 896)

I will continue to use the 828 because a) I can't afford the time or money to replace it and b) there currently is nothing on the market that quite meets my needs. (I use the 828 with my laptop).

If you can wait, Presonus will soon be bringing out a firewire interface, the 'Firestation' which looks promising (and has MIDI, unlike the MOTU gear). It also adheres to the Yamaha mLan specifications.

As mentioned already, check out the RME stuff. They have a very good reputation with both PC and MAC users.

If you want more opinions on the MOTU gear, check out the disscussion forums at www.harmonycentral.com - in the computer hardware or windows section I think.

Hope this helps....I know what a headache it can be choosing the right sound gear!

Mike K

Nick,

I would like to throw the M-Audio Delta 66 into the mix for you in addition to the RME. Both are superb cards with great driver support. I have been using the Delta 66 in combo with the Omni Studio breakout box and it has been rock solid for over a year (and I pound this equipment heavily!) with my media services company.

Best of all - it really works well with all of my Sonic Foundry apps.

Happy hunting.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

I have used an Aardvark Aark24 for just about two years now. I have never had a problem with it, and it's fairly easy to set up. I have only had to call tech support once. They replaced the unit in about four days because of a SUSPECTED cable problem. I say suspected because they didn't figure it out before just sending me a new one.

I know it's not the Q10, but it is an older cousin of sorts.

For what it's worth, I've tried the MOTU last year and did not get it to work on my Vaio laptop (even though a picture of my very laptop is actually on the 828 box). Switched to RME, and their hardware and drivers are fantastic and work well with Vegas. Their hardware mixer is amazing, and I don't think anybody else has anything comparable.

Aloha this is mainly directed to Mike K. I also own the 828 and a laptop with Home XP and a desktop with ME and I have the exact same problem witch you discribed with the plagued play back or monitoring. Have you found a fix. Motu seems to not like us PC users. The only reason I bought it over the protools soft with 001 is because I love Sonic Foundry software. I bought the 828 to long ago to return but I do not want to switch to another software program. I use Vegas 3 and Sound Fourge 5 Help!!Which release did you get to work on ME or XP?? I'm using (SETUP_FIREWIRE_V2.zip) my version is Firmware 1.01 hardware v4

Well I've since had some success with the current drivers (there was another update about a month ago - still called V2, but the release date changed (thanks for making it clear, MOTU)).

By defualt, the samples-per-buffer setting in the 828 control panel is set to 1024 bytes (this is from memory, so it might be a different value). This results in the continuous crackling. When I lowered the buffer setting (512, 382, 256 or 128 bytes)
that the crackling dissapeared, and playback was useable.

However, I still get random dropouts. Sometimes when I start playback in Vegas the 828 does nothing until I stop and then restart playback. Has also happened while recording. [NOTE: this is on my XP laptop]

I will be selling my 828 soon. Seeing as Acid 4 supports ASIO drivers, and I believe the next revision of Vegas will too, when it is released (this is info inferred from posts in the ACID forums - sorry if I'm wrong, SOFO!), the Presonus Firestation looks like an interesting option (I will wait for reviews though). I own a Presonus ACP8 compressor bank, which is fantastic, so I trust the company!

Let us know how you get on.

Mike K

Mahalo! Your tip of lowering the buffer in the control panel to 384 bytes instead of 1024 bytes finally got my system to record and play combined with uping the buffer size!

I did notice a drop out once at the begining of playback once. I was thinking I would have to play back with my stock pci card until tonight. I will have some time next week to do some heavier testing before trying to record a real project. I hate this 828 I almost bought the Ediriol UA-5 today it only records 2 tracks through usb but it sounds like it might actually work unlike these 828's. So here is what I did to get it to playback on my Desk Top 800 PIII 384 MB Rambus Ram Windows ME Desk Top.

In Vegas 3 I pushed the toal buffer to 1 second to get a clear playback. Does that mean there is a 1 second gap between what I hear and record?

In Sound Fourge 5 I push the total buffer size all the way up to max at (1,472 kb)
I don't know what that does. In the oppisite (92 kb) direction the playback is not very distorted.

I will try the same settings on my (800 PIII Laptop with 256MB of RAM running win XP Home) Soon I'll let you know how it goes. I bought the moto 828 for my laptop as well but I thought I should start with the desk top because it has a 7200 RPM HD. Again Mahalo since I'm stuck with the motu for now at least it kind of works.

I'm using V2 from Feb 2002 by the way. I will download the latest and see if it helps more with eliminating the little occasional click and pops? I have never had such a difficult piece of hardware and just like you, I have had no response from motu by email. Because of the 6 hour time difference from Hawaii I haven't spent my mornings hitting redial trying to get through to motu support. It feels like there is a class action law suit brewing here. I have yet to hear from a sucessful windows and motu 828 system working as advertise by anyone one other than the motu sales department. Aloha David W.

Hi David,

Glad that you too have finally managed to get some use of your 828. I can't believe that MOTU has had no problems with testing the 828/896 on PCs....unless of course they just have the the one in-house PC which happens to work with the thing?! (They have a reputation of being a mac-focused company)
The fact that between us we have failed to get the product working properly on a variety of different systems, and have had similar problems suggests that there is a definite hardware/software problem. (perhaps we could offer to test MOTU products on the PC for them, as they don't seem to do a very good job themselves)

>>"I did notice a drop out once at the begining of playback once"

It's the random nature of the problem that drives me up the wall - you can't really tell what is causing it, but somewhere at the back of your mind you're thinking 'I've never had this happen with any other soundcard...'


>>"In Vegas 3 I pushed the toal buffer to 1 second to get a clear playback. Does that mean there is a 1 second gap between what I hear and record?"

With the higher buffersize in vegas you'll notice a slightly slugish feel when you start playback. Also, when you make a change to plug-in settings during playback the changes will take longer to be audible (in your current situation you'll have a 1-second wait before the change is heard). I'd be surprised if you didn't have equal success with the defualt setting (0.350?). I have never had to touch this setting. When you record, Vegas should be compensating for the larger buffer size ie . if you play in time to what vegas is playing, the recording will be in time (you shouldn't have to manually move it on the timeline after recording is done).

>>"I'm using V2 from Feb 2002 by the way. I will download the latest and see if it helps more with eliminating the little occasional click and pops?"

Don't know if it will help or not - I can't say I noticed any change in performance. Un-helpfully, MOTU don't say what they've changed in the update (unlike ANY OTHER MANUFACTURER who would normally supply a list of bug fixes etc - SOFO is a good example of this, as they always give a list.)


>>" I have never had such a difficult piece of hardware and just like you, I have had no response from motu by email... It feels like there is a class action law suit brewing here. I have yet to hear from a sucessful windows and motu 828 system working as advertise by anyone one other than the motu sales department. "

Unbelieveable, isn't it? I'm a regular visitor to the Sound On Sound (V.Good English mag) forums ( www.sospubs.co.uk ). The guy who writes the PC column and most of the PC hardware/software reviews, Martin Walker, is a fairly helpful and responsive whenever people post questions to him on the forum. A couple of the other SOS staff (Mac users) own the 828. I will put a couple of posts up and see if between them they can try and get the 828 to work on Martins PC. You never know....

Mike K

Well I bought a Edirol UA-5 today because I need to be able to record And I had similar problems on my (Desktop Dell 800 PIII, 384 Rambus RAM, 7200 RPM HD, and Windows ME) which leads me to think it's my system. So I moved the Edirol over to my (Laptop Compaq Presario 800 PIII, 256 RAM, 5400 RPM, and Window XP Home)and it worked perfect.

So Just for peace of mind I switched the old Motu 828 over to the Laptop and for some reason???? It worked perfect????? I recorded for tracks at a time and NO CLICKING or Gaps? I made 12 Stereo 16 bit 44.1 = 24 tracks and played it back while recorded 4 new tracks with no errors?? This makes no sense. The motu has never worked. I did need to pull the Motu 828 down to (254 bytes in the motu console settings) and the defaut on Vegas worked fine. I'm so happy but feel really bad for you and the many other non working users out there. I'm hoping it's not a fluke but it worked like a TV push the button and every thing did what it was suppose to. Now I'm going to need to learn how to use Vegas to it's full extent. I'm going to strip down the Dell system and through in a new mother boad and a 2.4 Ghz chip and XP Pro I'll let you know how it goes next month. I'm wondering if something I installed for the Edirol some how help the Motu to work?? That makes no sense to me but I can not explain it. I spent MANY DAYS changing settings and it always made noise during playback.

I did pull the Motu 828 over to the ME machine and crossed my fingers butr it didn't work BUT the Edirol didn't either. Very strange because my desk top has more RAM and fatser HD's??? Maybe it's a DELL thing the only reason I have the Compac is because I had order a Dell Inspirion 8100 which I'm sure you have read the warnings from Motu so I returned and bought the compaq.

MAHALO FOR YOR HELP MIKE! I do have another question (sorry I'm being a pest When you set the motu analog 1+2 as the Record and Playback and the master sent to Analog 1+2. How can you monitor inputs 3-8? I can record them and see them in the levels of Vegas but I cannot HEAR them?? I'm hoping I'm just dumb and that there is a way to do this?

What is the configuration of your system? I know it's winXP Home but what type of RAM, HD and CPU. If there is anything I can do to help in your testing let me know. ALOHA!!!!!!! David W.

I did pull the Motu 828 over to the ME machine and crossed my fingers butr it didn't work BUT the Edirol didn't either. Very strange because my desk top has more RAM and fatser HD's??? Maybe it's a DELL thing the only reason I have the Compac is because I had order a Dell Inspirion 8100 which I'm sure you have read the warnings from Motu so I returned and bought the compaq.
Hi David,

>>"...When you set the motu analog 1+2 as the Record and Playback and the master sent to Analog 1+2. How can you monitor inputs 3-8? I can record them and see them in the levels of Vegas but I cannot HEAR them?? I'm hoping I'm just dumb and that there is a way to do this?"<<<

At the moment Vegas doesn't support ASIO drivers, which would allow near-realtime software monitoring of inputs. Currently there is no easy way to monitor the inputs from Vegas. What you need to do is open up the 828 control panel and select the input(s) you want to monitor using the 828's "cuemix plus" hardware monitoring. You can choose to monitor (analog) pairs 1+2, 3+4, 5+6 or 7+8, and I think you can choose just to monitor single inputs (1, 2, 3 etc.) These will be fed directly through to the left&right monitor outs on the 828, mixed in with the main mix (which is a duplicate of outputs 1+2). I think the cuemix option might be on the second tab of the 828 control panel - by defualt it is set to 'none'. You can change the relative levels of the main mix by playing with the main volume and monitor controls on the front of the 828.

>>"What is the configuration of your system? I know it's winXP Home but what type of RAM, HD and CPU. If there is anything I can do to help in your testing let me know"<<

Well, just for the record: 1.2GHz Celeron, 256MB ram, 20gig 4,200 HD. I think I've kinda given up and will still probably sell my 828. Don't know what I'll be replacing it with yet though. Thanks for the offer - I hope your system continues to work!

Mike K

I had problems with MOTU 2408/2 at 24 bits on 98SE, but no probs at all after upping to XP. Certainly more choices of widgets to hang on to a MOTU. Sound OK, better than my DA-88 at 16 bits.....

geoff

Hi guy's I've been following your post on MOTU and Aardvark.
I only know one person who had Aardvark and he had problems, Now mind you he wasn't the sharpest knife in the draw so I really don't think it was Aardvark fault!
As a matter of fact I've only heard good things about it.
I picked up the MOTU when they first came out and used them only on Win98se.
I guess im very very lucky because I've don't remember any major problems other than MOTU doesn't care about PC users.
Well I'm using 3ea-2408, 2408mkII, 24I and 1296 and Im very happy with them on Win2k SP3, and Win98se.
If I were to buy new audio hardware more than likely I'd buy MOTU but!! I would try others first.
I've also had very good luck with Echo cards.

George

<<Well I bought a Edirol UA-5 today because I need to be able to record And I had similar problems on my (Desktop Dell 800 PIII, 384 Rambus RAM, 7200 RPM HD, and Windows ME) which leads me to think it's my system.>>

I've heard nothing but bad stuff about ME, especially for audio. I would consider installing XP on this system (its working on your laptop now).??

drbam

George,

I've not heard of major problems with the MOTU interfaces you list, which as far as I know are all based around PCI cards and breakout boxes. It seems that many PC users are having a really hard time getting the 828 & 896 interfaces to work. Both of these use a firewire connection, and share the same driver files.

Mike K

Mike K.
Yea I know, I picked up a Compaq Armada E500 very cheap thats why Im keeping tabs on the firewire/USB audio I/Os and the MOTU-986 was at the top of my list.

George

stateofgracie: which rme card(s) do you have?
What OS ?
What chipset and mobo ?

Okay chaps, small update.

I actually got a reply from MOTU tech support (hooray!). Part of the reply states that unless the audio app uses ASIO drivers (currently Vegas does not) then the 256 buffer setting (in the MOTU control panel) is the best one to use. That clears that up.

Mike K

Yes Vegas is working on the Compaq Presario 1701C Laptop PIII 800 MHZ, with XP HOME.

I'm going to do a test of upgrading My DEll 8110 Desktop 800 PIII from ME to XP PRO and I'll let you guys know if that corrects the problem before I change the CPU and Mother Board.

I'm still confused about the Laptop working after MONTHS of plagued playback???? I had 30 audio (not midi) tracks playing back without error now while recording 4 tracks. I' keep pushin it to test it;s limits on the laptop.

Aloha David W.

Way to go Mike!!! that confirms my success with that 256 setting. Did you stay on hold for 2 hours to get that? Have you had sucess with the 256 buffer setting?

Do you think SF will add ASIO drivers?

David W.

Hi David,

Actually it was a reply to an email! I know, unheard of, right? :)

I'm in a bit of an awkward situation at the moment because my 'music' laptop has to stay at work as I'm using it on the show that's in at the moment, and my home pc which is currently my internet/games/offic machine doesn't have any 'proper' audio stuff on it (ie sofo!). Any way, on my home PC I set the buffers to 256, and playback was smooth but had dropouts approx every 20 seconds (playing back from Windows media player, in Windows ME). Haven't had time to do proper testing again, but it doesn't look hopeful :(

About the ASIO thing - I should stress that I don't work for SOFO (so that I don't get into trouble for spreading false info). ACID Pro version 4.0 is just about to be released, and it supports ASIO drivers among other things. In a couple of threads in the ACID forums it was suggested that some (all??) of the new audio features will find their way into the next Vegas update (V4). This won't be for a good few months though.

Mike K

Well I actually get to help you out Mike. I upgraded my Dell 800 MHZ, PIII, 384 Rambus RAM, 7200 RPM HD, ((ME operating system)) TO ((XP PROFESSIONAL))
It works PERFECT!!!!!!

Just Like the Laptop I had told you about, with a 800 MHZ, PIII, 256 RAM, 5400 RPM HD, running XP HOME. NO Plagued play back as long as the Motu 828 is set to 256. I can't believe that I almost dumped the 828 because of the playback and the whole time it has been a driver conflict with ME. If I were you I would upgrade to XP Home for $89 (I think at costco) and you will have a very nice Sounic Foundry Motu eXPerience! I feel like a commercial for microsoft.

MORE STUFF:I still haven't heard back from Motu tech support but they should really just post that there 828 does not work with ME.

I Had Vegas playing 34 tracks while recording 5 and Not one click or pop while recording or playing back on both machines.

Another thing I noticed is with windows ME, I had lots of poping randomly from the 828. With XP Home on the laptop and XP Pro on the Desktop, I have not had any clicking except when I turn on the unit.

A not related note is that I added the new ART OPL Tube 2 input tube preamp with output limiting and It sounds really great for the $179. I did some samples direct using the 828 preamps and compared it to the ART's and WOW it really adds nice crisp and yet still warn tone. If you need to add a couple of more XLR inputs to the 828 take a look at it.

Sorry to blab I am SSSSSSSooooooo Happy to beable to use the motu and sofo as advertised FINALLY!!!!!

Buy XP the upgrade was pain less other than needing to create a new dial up connection because the dial up's didn't work correctly after the upgrade. And of course you need to reinstall the Motu but the sofo software did GREAT!!I cannot wait until ASIO in Vegas

ALOHA!!! David

>Sorry to blab I am SSSSSSSooooooo Happy to beable to use the motu and sofo as >advertised FINALLY!!!!!

Thanks David for the 411

George Ware