mov render help

L8R wrote on 2/4/2010, 6:48 AM
Hi, I have a client that is asking me for this:

Would it be possible for me to get a master output (without music and ideally in Quicktime) from your programs.

My project is HDV 1440 X 1080 60i, the video is about 5 minutes.
When I rendered this the first time I used the uncompressed template... the file was 29 gigs.

I have since used, cinepak, sorenson, mpeg4 and they all look like crap ranging from 89 megs to 260 megs...

Big difference to the 29 gig uncompressed.

I've also used the 3 mbps template and it looked like crap as well.

Which format should I be using?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Comments

PerroneFord wrote on 2/4/2010, 6:52 AM
Well, yes it's quite possible to get excellent output, but what does the client NEED? That should be the determining factor in what you are trying to do.

You could get EXCELLENT results by using the Jpeg2000 option at 50%, or you could use MJpegA (or MJpegB) at 100%, or PNG, or numerous other codecs inside the .MOV container. But if you're client can't use them, then it's all for naught.

So ask them what they need, and then we can help more.
L8R wrote on 2/4/2010, 6:58 AM
well that's the problem here. I have asked this person who is a web designer for the client that I initially did the videos for.
They want them rendered so that they can cut them apart and use a few clips for something they are doing. (Don't even get me started on how I feel about that)

I have asked this person quite a few times what they want and this is the best I got.
In my opinion I would like to render it back to a m2t video/audio stream and print back to tape...

I will press for more info but have a feeling they don't know them selves.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/4/2010, 8:19 AM

Try "Sony AVC" in the "Save as type" window (under Render as).

Then, in the "Template" window, select "Internet 16:9 HD 30p". That should give you what you're looking for.


PerroneFord wrote on 2/4/2010, 8:42 AM
If they are going to recut this... I would NOT render it as an AVC file. Some intraframe codec would probably be best.
L8R wrote on 2/4/2010, 9:11 AM
So Ford.... is my suggestion of a .m2t 1440 x 1080 60i the way to go?
There should be no recompression as this is what my imput file is at?
Or is the only way to get lossless video to re-edit/render to go an avi route?
PerroneFord wrote on 2/4/2010, 9:43 AM
Whether or not there will be recompression depends on what you did to the footage. but chances are it will be recompressed, and with a lot of loss since you'd be doing a low bitrate mpeg2 file.

AVI or MOV do not matter. They are just containers. It's what goes in those containers that matter... the codecs.

Is you client on a Mac or PC?
L8R wrote on 2/4/2010, 10:08 AM
Hmmm... didn't ask.
Man, I've got to learn more about codecs...this stuff confuses the heck out of me.
Ok, so let's just say you were me, editing with the hdv 1440 x 1080 60i timeline... you did some tweaking and some effects. You want to render this out so that there is no loss in quality and you are able to edit it again like it was the first time. Presuming it was pc.
What would you do? Since I'm not too bright when it comes time to understanding the million codecs that are available.
BudWzr wrote on 2/4/2010, 10:29 AM
If they don't know, that means they're using a MAC.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/4/2010, 10:45 AM

So why can't you use .mov uncompressed?

L8R wrote on 2/4/2010, 10:54 AM
This was his response...

I am on a Mac – editing in Final Cut Pro. Unfortunately I can't read the .m2t file you sent me. In the past I've been able to convert those files directly from a Firestore drive but not this time!

Ideally I would like the highest quality Quicktime file you can output. Apple Intermediate Codec is good but it could be HDV if that's easier. I'm editing in: DVCPRO HD - 720p24

So Jay... should I use the uncompressed .mov files?
It's just that he originaly asked for them and said they should fit on a DVD... There are 5 shorts all about 3-5 min in length each.

So, I thought I was doing something wrong.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/4/2010, 11:02 AM

You're not doing anything wrong, other than trying to interface with an Apple/FCP person when you're a Vegas/PC person.

How far away from you is this other guy?


musicvid10 wrote on 2/4/2010, 11:09 AM
Uncompressed is going to be huge. I would think the best solution is the free Avid DNXHD. It will open natively in FCP.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/4/2010, 11:11 AM

That would work!

PerroneFord wrote on 2/4/2010, 11:14 AM
It will work and work well. And it's my standard procedure when working back and forth with PCs and Macs. It's just so seamless.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/4/2010, 11:18 AM

Here is a link for you--read all about it and download the codecs free of charge.

L8R wrote on 2/4/2010, 11:21 AM
He's about 45 minutes away.

I don't see this avid dnxhd... where do you see that?

sent this before seeing your link... sorry.
L8R wrote on 2/4/2010, 11:39 AM
trying it now...
L8R wrote on 2/4/2010, 11:55 AM
looks nice, small files size but have a problem... it's not rendering it in widescreen although I have chosen:
quicktime .mov
default template (uncompressed)
Custom:
custom frame size" 1440 1080
29.9709NTSC)
upper field first
1.333
Avid DNxHD codec - configure - color levels 709 (?)
1080i 59.94 DNxHD 220 10 bit.
32 bpp color
quality 50% - ( should this be 100%)

my project settings are hdv 1440x1080 60i

by the looks of it I either have use the :

1080p/29.97 avid dnxhd 220 1920x1080 8 bit 29.97 fps 220... template?
musicvid10 wrote on 2/4/2010, 12:00 PM
The Quicktime Player will always play back square pixels, even though other players will recognize widescreen.

The workaround is to render 1920x1080, 1:1 PAR (square pixels).
The default DNXHD settings should work fine for you, you can try 100% but I don't think you'll see much difference except larger files.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/4/2010, 12:00 PM

When you click on the "Confgure..." button for "Video Format: Avid DNxHD Codec" a window popos up. At the bottom of that window is a sliver of the top button you need to click on to select when code you want to use.

I would suggest you use one of the smaller 720 codecs.


musicvid10 wrote on 2/4/2010, 12:08 PM
I suggest leaving it at 1080. Since he is starting with HDV, going to 720 will discard 22% of the information at the expense of sharpness. Doing so won't fix his aspect problem, either.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/4/2010, 12:10 PM

He needs smaller files and it's for the Internet anyway.

The choice is his, he needs to know his options.
musicvid10 wrote on 2/4/2010, 12:15 PM
That isn't the impression I got at all . . .

This is what I am basing my response on. The choice, of course, is up to him.

"You want to render this out so that there is no loss in quality and you are able to edit it again like it was the first time."
L8R wrote on 2/4/2010, 12:20 PM
Thanks guys...
I did the 1920 x 1080 template
with the avid 1x1x codec and it turned out real nice.
1.26 gigs for a 12 second clip.

It's something that's going to have to go on an external HD... if they want quality, that's what it's going to have to be.....
I'll send him this clip and see what he thinks.

I'm just pissed that I just wasted an entire production day on this, when I'm not even getting paid for it... this wasn't part of the production...
Maybe I should charge them...I'm thinking I should.
Thanks everyone for your help.

This is why I love this forum, everyone is awesome.