Red Giant distributes the Magic Bullet plug-ins. I believe what you are talking about is just a Premiere version of the AE Magic Bullet plugs. The whole film look issue has been talked about time and time again, most recently in reguards to the new VEGAS plug-in from Zenote. http://www.zenote.com. If you want to use some of the AE plugs in VV you can get RedGL and use the DFT Digital Film Lab plug-in. (Other plugs might work as well but I have really only tested this one)

- Damnit Spot - are we always typing to post at the same time or what??

Filmy, I'm not really interest in AE and other like programs. I'd much rather seen these, and other, plug-ins "work in Vegas natively" as Douglas said in his post. Just another one of my little quirks.

In that regard, I got another note from Andrew stating, "I spent the day with the head of engineering of Vegas a couple weeks ago discussing this… we should be able to get it done by NAB next year."

Personally, I find that to be very encouraging (and exciting) news.

J--

>>>Filmy, I'm not really interest in AE and other like programs. I'd much rather seen these, and other, plug-ins "work in Vegas natively" as Douglas said in his post. Just another one of my little quirks.<<<

I can agree that spending all the money for RedGL just to get acess to the buit in grain filters and just to access AE plug it even a bit more silly when Satish has been working on one for free. But I know when RedGL was announced for VV people around here were very happy, not just for film look but for all that it offers. My only intrest in RedGL was really it's ability to interface with the AE plugs, and I already use AE. But as far as plugs that work directly in VV - as I said Zenote. I love Magic Bullet but rarely use it because it is a massive render hog and I would think that if the Magic Bullet suite was ported over to VV it would be along the lines of what BigFX FilmFX has done with the Zenote plugs.

I think that part of the problem, and it really isn't a "problem" really, is that you have people working on a project that is geared to one thing - such as a NLE. And than you have something like Magic Bullet which was worked on by the Orphange in order to give shot on video a film look...not anything to do with them needing a NLE. Maybe we have all just come to expect everything to just be already built in to our NLE's anymore, especially with VV because there is so much 'built in' already. And I am sure that Sony could hire developers to create something that does 'exactly' what Magic Bullet does and have it as a built in feature but there is a reason why the Orphange charges what they do for their work and there is a reason why the AE plug-ins cost what they do - I would think that cost would be passed on to all of us if it was built in.

". . . and there is a reason why the AE plug-ins cost what they do - I would think that cost would be passed on to all of us if it was built in."

Points, well taken. I could be 110% wrong, but I'm not sure that statement is fully accurate. It's my opinion, and that's all it is, that Adobe products are way over-priced.

Certainly you're right that continuing R&D is passed along to the consumer, but I think most of it, and I could be wrong, remember, is paid by those that are new to the product. People like you and I may account for some, but we pay a lesser amount as upgraders.

Still, I would like to see one application like Vegas "do it all" because, more often than not, you don't have to worry about compatability issues. Then again it simply may not always work out that way. Just me wishin' it was so.

J--

I hope you dont mind me adding my 2 cents but I would not like to see something like Magic Bullet added as part of the Vegas package (Astronimical cost) I would rather buy an NLE as an NLE.

What I think is totally wrong is that in order to use magic bullet you have to buy "AE." The Plugins could be adapted to work in vegas, or vice versa, or both. And bought for the same cost as buying them normally from the ophanage. That is fair competition surely. Working for the consumer not just about USING Marketing ploys to make us use certain products.

I too emailed Andrew Little today and asked that consideration be given to developing a plug-in for Vegas. He immediately responded and said I'd be put on an early notification list. I'm sure Red Giant is working on just a plug-in, not something that would inflate the price of Vegas. But as a writer-director, I'm not sophisticated in post-production color correction to a 'film look' and so I like the idea of a plug-in, not only to simplify the task, but to enable the creation of a consistent look and atmosphere throughout the piece. Now all we need (understatement) is a plug-in along the lines of Avid's patented "Match Color" feature which can color-correct one clip to another in a few clicks.

I think before we get off to far on the topic we should define a few things -

Magic Bullet in *not* an adobe product. Yes it interacts with Adobe After Effects and these new Red Giant modules work within Premiere, but they are not made by Adobe. So the pricing is not Adobes fault. Likewise you don't "need" an Adobe product to get film look. If you want to hire the Orphange they will do the film look for you.

If the Magic Bullet suite can be ported over to Vegas Video as a Plug-in it would not be part of the package but available at an additional cost, the same way that Boris RedGL now is. As a plug-in I hope that many many people start porting over their plugs to VV because, in a way, it's all good. Many people love the Cinelook plug, others loves the BigFX FilmFX plug and others love the DFT Digital Film Tools "suite" or the 55mm plugs. Of these the only one to be almost ported over has been BigFX FilmFX via Zenote. Any of these come at an additional cost to whatever you are using that supports them.

Anything that is "built in" would obviously be great but the more bloated VV becomes the more the cost might go up and the more "useless" the program would become for those who, for example, just want to dump their home videos over to edit and than output for a website. The weird exception to this would be that if VV becomes the "industry standard" as some NLE's have, it won't really matter what VV offers because people will purchase it simply because of the name, not because it actually suites their needs. But I personally like an NLE to be a good NLE at its' root as well as upgradeable. I only think VV would need to 'do it all' if plug-in support stops all together...than Sony would have to try and include everything, such as a Magic Bullet type suite, 'built in' because if they didn't the product would die off.

Now the other 'definition' is just trying to make everything even more simple. I may be wrong but isn't that part of why VV allows for scripting? And also isn't that part of the concept with plug-ins overall? So while many of us would love to have some sort of 'film look' pre-set for use in VV I think we should let Sony worry about ironing out the existing kinks and maybe adidng some new presets for the already existing filters and let BigFx/Zenote, 55 mm, Boris, Alien Skin, etc, etc all worry about porting there existing plugs over to VV. As with anything else the more of a demand there is for third party plugs for VV the more will be made for VV.

Thanks Filmy you put things much better than I could and I agree with what your saying. What I cant understand though is there must be a lot of people using vegas who would buy film look plugins. And the first in will make the most money. so as a business why would no one have done this already (Except Zenote)

Of course now Sony have taken over things seem to be moving a bit. unless there is other factors. Sorry if Im suspicious but if it walks like a duck.

since the use of dv format is highly popular with indie,short filmmakers i think dedicated effects,filters or plug ins that would make a dv footage look like a movie,film is an important step for any NLE(plus marketing)...i believe and hope in the near future all NLE's will have those options...but it should not take long for Vegas since other NLE(s) not even as solid as Vegas can do it...Competition is highly important in arts for me...Since i do my art with the help of Vegas i really think Sony should think the same way...It's first how you shoot a motion second how the image could be better with NLE...and as far as Vegas is a great tool for that...I just can't stand when an other NLE has this important feature right now and we don't...


vegas for filmmakers!

I think everyone's points were well made and well taken.

(Edit) "... the more "useless" the program [Vegas] would become for those who just want to dump their home videos over to edit..."

I thought that was what Screenblast was for. (/Edit)

The current price for Red Giant's Movie Look is only $49. Considering 40 different functions, it certainly seems to be a better "value" than those offered by Zenote, just my opinion. Plus, I can see the former being used more frequently than the latter as well, at least for my current applications.

J--

Maybe someone mentioned this earlier, I didn't read the entire thread. After DSE was done with his presentation on Vegas, a Red Giant Rep got up and demonstrated their plug in(s) for Premiere, but DID say that they had engineers looking at what "...needed to be done," to get the product over to Vegas. Good sign.