You ARE too good! Thanks Producer . . .

More light reading eh?

Grazie

Yup, read, just off to do a test. Owlroost's solution worked for you? The "Stretch video to fill output frame size" being checked? - CBR and VBR I'll think on!!!

Again thanks + OWLROOST!

Grazie

I think you need to be a bit careful with VBR and VCD and SVCD.

I think it'll work fine in DVD players but not in genuine VCD players.

I guess thats not much of an issue for most of us, hands up those that own a VCD player! I make a lot of VCDs that go into players in China and they are very twitchy about what they'll digest. I have a suspicion that some of them will not play even VCD 2.0 spec which is a problem as I cannot find anyway to burn to VCD 1.0

farss,
Have you made Business Card VCD's? If so, what settings and variables have you found work best in terms of quality vs. compatibility?
John

"I cannot find anyway to burn to VCD 1.0"

If it helps, VCDEasy creates an image that Nero etc. will burn, and lists VCD 1.1

"The main issue is that the "stretch video to fill output frame size" box needs to be ticked in the 'Render As' dialogue."

Please be careful with this... Experimenting with various anamorphic setups & letterboxing, I have had this generate video with the wrong aspect (ie. letterboxing ~ 1/3 what it should have been). Probably fine when not doing something *unusual*, but just a word of warning to check your output in case.

"I'm finding the MPEG1 looks better than MPEG2."

In my opinion, couple of possible issues that might effect this sort of thing. 1) SOFO states that they have tweaked their mpg2 for DVD generation, & if using CBR &/or lower bit rates, No matter how great the tweaked Mainconcept encoder, you can often do better elsewhere. If you're pushing the limits and get the blockies, try Ligos or better yet, TMPGEnc, perhaps using the special templates you can find at doom9.org or dvdrhelp.com.

2) Sometimes you can get better performance at lower bit rates staying with a smaller frame size, letting the hardware blow the picture up as needed. FWIW, in these cases I usually like to render the smaller frame size (ie. 352 x 240) from a full sized frame - gives the encoder more info to pick and choose from.

Depending on the player, might be able to use an X-(S)VCD, which is simply put a disc not fully to spec. There's an interesting article on CVCD at dvdrhelp.com - earlier spec then SVCD, uses 352 width *I think* allowing some small increase in bandwidth.

FWIW, with the common, cheaper DVD players in the US (perhaps favored because they actually play more stuff then more expensive - see comparisons at dvdrhelp.com), find SVCD works well at more or less spec using 48 kHz audio @ 128 (not much if any penalty in size, and in accordance with most recorded sources as sound cards usually work at 48 now days, but off spec for SVCD so may only work on DVD players). Depending on the quality of the source, use a minimum usually around 1 M, std. max, & 1.5 - 2.3 M for average depending on length. This allows up to roughly an hour's worth on a CD.

Do a bit of this as a hobby... Helps to filter your source if not pristine, and also can look Much better if you're doing a self recorded movie from cable if you perform ivt & deinterlace. [selecting the 23.976 frame rate with pulldown may or may not help] [this is using VV4c Mainconcept encoder, & others may do better or worse] [shortens render times considerably] De-select maintain aspect rather then use the stretch button on the render dialog - should show approx correct size in preview when rendering widescreen though 4:3 may appear off - rendered proj views at correct aspect in SVCD/DVD player (not wmplayer).

Encode so finished mpg2 is close to true 800 meg (the amount shown at the bottom of windows explorer & not the size next to the file name). Like to use VCDEasy to create an image, as many of these cheaper players do not fully support menus or numbered chapters, will stop the movie if next button pushed on remote and so on... Set however many equidistant chapters for convenience using next and prev buttons, default return disabled, numbers disabled, & prev button for first chapt, start of movie disabled.

If this helps anyone, Cool.

Grazie,
Yes, in my particular case "Stretch video to fill output frame size" being checked is what did the trick. Let me know how things work out.

Mark

Nope! Not impressed . . . followed instructions. MPEG1, clean subtle true colours video NOT stuttering; MPEG2 clean subtle true colours BUT video stuttering.

Hmmm....

What's next to try?

Grazie

Grazie:

You didn't say one way or the other, but I assume you're playing these back on a set-top player, rather than your PC?

I've experimented (exhausively) with these settings, and I make SVCD's with the following:

MainConcept MPEG-2

SVCD NTSC (**although you're in PAL land, aren't you?** - won't PAL players play back NTSC disks?)

Custom template settings

Project Tab:Best Rendering Quality

Video Tab:
480x480
CBR = 2,500,000

Advanced Audio Tab
Write sequence display extension = checked
DC coefficient = 10 bit

I use audio at 48KHz sample rate (DVD-compliant for possible future conversion, when I can afford a DVD burner)

How are you authoring/burning VCD's and SVCD's? I use version 1 of Ulead DVD MF because it allows non-compliant VCD's and SVCD's, and will not re-encode them unless the user tells it to. Version 2 insists on re-encoding - oh well - I won't buy it.

Because the audio is sampled at 48KHz instead of 44.1, I have a (technically) non-compliant SVCD or X-SVCD. I have a modest 27" tv, and family and friends are amazed at the quality. My Pioneer DVD player will play these disks, as well as a friends Sony, and another friend's Panasonic. None of my productions are over 30 minutes, so fitting it all on a CD is no problem

I've posted similar findings in the past - search on my handle if you wish

Good Luck

Frenchy

Grazie, i haven't seen you mention what bit rates, frame sizes, quality settings, VBR vs. CBR, etc and sundry other parameters you are using. Can you list those for us?

My apologies to both Frenchy and Chienworks! I should have proffered some of my settings too. I will do this, but for the moment, and to give you something to beat me arouind the head with, I played the finished MPEG2 not on a set-top box, not on a finished burnt SVCD - BUT . . here you go fellas . . . only directly from V4 itself. I felt, as the result was worse than that of the MPEG1 I wasn't going to "waste" another silver platter . . . help the environment and all that . . . . ;-)

Now, I'll get my settings together and get back to y'all! - But as it's my turn to prepare supper tonight, you need to give me a couple of hours. It's now 17:50 in the UK. I'll attempt to have them up here by 20:00pm [local UK time ]

Again, thank you for your patience and understanding. I know with your help I'll get there.

Cheers,

Grazie

SHAME on you grazie :o) - playing and comparing it ONLY on your pc...

To add to the above, and not add to the local landfill, I do test-burns on CD-RW's, and when I like the results (finally), I just copy it to a CD-R or two..

Have a great supper... (It's about lunch time here - I'm hungry)

Frenchy

Mmmmm. French bread. Sounds like a great appetizer for lunch! :)

"MPEG2 clean subtle true colours BUT video stuttering."

Due to playing mpg2 in Vegas? Might try dvd2avi route I've posted in other threads - doesn't force Vegas to do all the work rendering - please remember that this is not a conventional overlay window as used by player software. If needed, doom9.org has codecs and players for mpg2 so Vegas playback uneeded.

Otherwise, consider a virtual disc on your hard drive? Use one often and it works. As SVCD, simple, no menu layout has one track for BS, 2nd for video/audio, playable mpg2 in appropriate folder. Will play back at incorrect aspect in wmplayer but should allow scoping out smoothness. Mpg2 is not as good at interlaced as it could be, whereas mpg1 vcd this is not an issue because of frame size -> could this be where your prob comes from?

I mentioned NTSC flags for mpg2, leaving PAL conversions alone as I'm not well versed there. Still, might check out http://www.thedigitalbits.com/officialfaq.html for potential flags that might help smooth playback if inserted in the mpg2.

"I do test-burns on CD-RW's,"

Trivia: best way to test on (older?) DVD players anyways, as reflective surface is actually more compatible then that on CDR.

luck

Buuurp! 'cuse me! - Wow, Spg Bol on an evening in London where the humidity is liken to that of a Turkish Bath - phew! Washed down spag with a glas of Val Pol - mmm . . . nice.

Right! - I'll do a screen grab for Kelly's site - Kells, what is your site ref again - please . . . ?

Hold on, just firing up the ol firewire drives - "Scotty, I need more power!" - "She will nee take any more Capt'n!" - Give me what you got I need it now for Grazie! He's going hyper drive, for frenchy and Chienworks!!"

. . . sorry, couldn't resist it . . .

Grazie

Have sent 4 x Screen grabs of the Template and Project details to: testbench@vegasusers.com : for Kelly's attention.

Thanx - Grazie

http://www.vegasusers.com/testbench/screenshots/grazie-mpeg2settings-render_to_new_track.jpg
http://www.vegasusers.com/testbench/screenshots/grazie-mpeg2settings-custom_template-project.jpg
http://www.vegasusers.com/testbench/screenshots/grazie-mpeg2settings-custom_template-video.jpg
http://www.vegasusers.com/testbench/screenshots/grazie-mpeg2settings-custom_template-advancedvideo.jpg

Thanks for that Kelly - really.

Grazie

- Frenchy, submitted my details - Kelly has put them up on his site.

Any further thoughts - please.

Grazie

Grazie:

I looked at screen grabs - I can't see any red flags (based on my limited experience).

Did not see a screen grab which showed bit rate, however (video tab). Two differently named screen grabs were identical. (custom_template-project.jpg AND custom_template-video.jpg ???) - I know, too much vino with supper...

They appear to be a "custom" template - yes?. Any other changes from the standard? The only other thing I saw was the DC coefficient of 8 (I use 10)- but from what I understand, this only affects audio. How do they compare with settings I posted above?

Other thoughts - have you done a test burn yet? If you don't want to wait for a complete render, maybe just render a "problem" piece, and view on your set-top player. I can't stress how much this has helped me work out minor idiosynchrasies in some portions of my projects, seeing something on monitor or even via firewire output, then playing on my set-top player. I thought I had a problem, then seeing it in final SVCD form eliminated my concerns (sometimes it's also raised others, however).

Also, I occasionally read how-to's and tutorials on vcdhelp.com for some info. There are a lot of folks which frequent those forums in PAL land as well.

my thoughts

Frenchy

Thanks frenchy for the feedback. Can't believe I did a double post for the video tab . . . . What's a Red Flag?

Yes, I made my own custom template to save the changes you asked me to do so that I didn't actually change the original one - yes?

What was interesting was that although i requested for a PAL SVCD from the V4 Menu - when I looked into the deeper menus this hadn't been carried through - ie Mainconcept was still suggesting I was burning a NTSC.

No, I don't have a set-top box. I do have a DVD player in my laptop. Why am I bothering to put myself through this? two reasons -

1- I want to understand what is going on with the s/w I 've got

2 - I want to be able to proffer a colleague of mine at least a usable SCVD.

At the moment I've given him a straight MPEG1 file on a CD. He's going to play this as part of a presentation at a writers group at the end of the month.

Thanks for the feedback,

I'll get the proper file uploaded for Kelly's attention PLUS a grovel note!

No wine tonight!

Grazie