Multi-cam project: Lessons Learned

TeetimeNC wrote on 7/16/2012, 11:15 AM
I recently finished a 3.5 hour DVD from a 3-camera shoot. I learned a few things and in the spirit of community decided to compile my list to share with my fellow Vegas video editors. Some (mabe all) of the items have already appeared in this forum so please forgive any redundancy.

We shot with three Panasonic HMC-150's. I edited with Vegas 10e. I would have liked to do the project in my Vegas 11, but I don't yet have confidence in its stability on my PC. In over 50 hours of editing and countless hours of rendering over almost two weeks, I had exactly two Vegas crashes. Interestingly, the first was in the first hour of the first day of editing, the second was on the last day of editing. Good enough for me.

Here are things I learned:

Time code syncing Before the shoot I tested Vegas' ability to sync the footage based on synced time codes in the three cams. It didn't work - apparently because if can't sync if the first few frames don't contain the time code. Well that disappointed me. Why can't Vegas just read out to the 10th frame, for example, and use that as the sync point. I slated every scene and synced from that, no problem. I would have done this anyway as a fallback for syncing.

Multi-cam editing In general this worked really well in Vegas. Due to the nature of my project there was only one event that needed to be moved to another location. But there were quite of few places where we decided to rethink our cuts and this was quite easy in Vegas multi-cam. One minor annoyance and a workaround had to do with cropping. I had one stationary (unmanned) cam that needed a slight crop. I cropped it before invoking multi-cam but then realized my crops were lost in multi-cam. So I used this process to apply the desired crop to 100+ stationary cam events:
1. Cropped the first event.
2. Copied the crop.
3. Went to Edit Details, sorted by takes, selected all the stationary cam takes, right clicked one of these on the timeline, and pasted event attributes. This applied the crop to all the stationary cam events. One problem - Vegas doesn't support Windows multi-select in the Edit Details dialog so I had to repeat down arrow/space bar 100+ times to select my events.

HD to DVD. I've always shot progressive. Experts on the HMC-150 forums, recomend shooting 720p60 if you plan to resize for DVD. Enough people here suggest shooting 1080i that I decided to give it a try. Surprisingly, it worked well. I know that 1080 has more chroma info, and the conversion from 1080i to 480i looks as good as the conversion from 720p60 to 480p30. John Cline describes in these forums how Vegas handles the 1080i to 480i and I think he is right. When I get a chance I do want to try the Yadif plugin approach though.

DVDA and Dual layer 8.5GB discs I was unable to get DVDA 5.2 to correctly set the dual layer break point. I wanted it to break at a chapter point. Instead I prepared the project using DVDA 5.2 and then burned to Disc using ImgBurn. ImgBurn let me select and preview the chapter point as the layer break.

All in all I was pretty satisfied with the multi-cam editing experience. Feel free to add any of your multi-cam findings to this thread.

EDIT: Changed "Event Details" to "Edit Details"

/jerry

Comments

Byron K wrote on 7/16/2012, 11:17 PM
Thanks for the report Jerry! I like reading feedback like these it helps.

Byron
Grazie wrote on 7/17/2012, 12:38 AM
Ditto Byron. Thanks Jerry for your time in writing your report. A straightforward read.

ushere wrote on 7/17/2012, 2:47 AM
+1 - thanks
attentionfish wrote on 7/17/2012, 5:30 AM
You said, "3. Went to event details, sorted by takes, selected all the stationary cam takes, right clicked one of these on the timeline, and pasted event attributes. This applied the crop to all the stationary cam events. One problem - Vegas doesn't support Windows multi-select in the Event Data dialog so I had to repeat down arrow/space bar 100+ times to select my events."

My question: After you exited multi-cam editing, your events would have shown again in their individual tracks. Why couldn't you crop the first event in the stationary cam track, copy it, select all events in the track after that one, then paste event attributes? It's a simple select 2nd event, scroll right, shift-select end event, paste event attribute.

side-note: I created a keyboard short-cut for paste event attribute (I selected Alt-a for that function) and I use it often after multi-cam editing.
TeetimeNC wrote on 7/17/2012, 7:03 AM
>My question: After you exited multi-cam editing, your events would have shown again in their individual tracks. Why couldn't you crop the first event in the stationary cam track, copy it, select all events in the track after that one, then paste event attributes? It's a simple select 2nd event, scroll right, shift-select end event, paste event attribute.

One of the unstated reasons for posting my lessons learned was the hope others would chime in with their thoughts just as you have. To be honest, I didn't think of trying what you suggest. It would be easier than my approach. My only concern would be - does Vegas reliably allow you to recombine the multi-tracks after you apply the crop, and if so, does it retain the crop setting? I want to retain the ability to enable Multi-camera editing.

/jerry
TeetimeNC wrote on 7/17/2012, 7:19 AM
I have another thought on using Edit Details. This is a nice feature in Vegas but perhaps one with much unrealized potential. Wouldn't it be nice if you could filter the list by a rich set of criteria, then apply a setting or fx to the filtered set? For example:

1. Select where Active Take Name contains "Wide" to filter just these takes in the Edit Details list.
2. Apply selected crop preset (Vegas displays list of crop presets to choose from)

/jerry
PeterWright wrote on 7/17/2012, 9:55 AM
After multicam editing, my clips don't go back to their individual tracks, they exist as takes on a single track.

For some FX such as colour correction, I apply these as Media FX in Project Media, then they affect wherever a given clip is used, but I don't think you can apply Pan-Crop that way, so Jerry's way sounds good.
Arthur.S wrote on 7/17/2012, 11:39 AM
With V11 you can lay them back on their original tracks.
TeetimeNC wrote on 7/17/2012, 2:22 PM
Good to know Arthur. Would you do that even if you might still have camera changes to make? In other words, could you do this:

1. Perform you multi-camera edits.
2. Lay the events back on their original tracks
3. Apply crop to all the wide shots track
4. Perform more multi-camera edits

/jerry
Former user wrote on 7/17/2012, 2:28 PM
Peterwright,

You can expand the multicam back to multiple tracks. This makes it easy to adjust edits, undo mutes (which is what Vegas does, mute events). Much easier than trying to adjust the single track.

I thought that if you applied an effect, such as a crop to a track and then went into Multicam, it would only bypass the effect while you are in multicam mode, then once you go back to multitrack mode, it would enable the effects again. I am out of town and away from my Vegas 11 computer so I can test this.

Dave T2
PeterWright wrote on 7/18/2012, 3:19 AM
Thanks Arthur and Dave - I didn't know V11 could do that - yes, back to separate tracks after editing gives many new options on how to apply tweaks.

And yes, I agree FX don't show up in mulitcam screen view but are still there after reverting to single screen, Ctrl/Shift D.
Arthur.S wrote on 7/18/2012, 5:03 AM
Sorry Jerry, I haven't used 11 for a while - I uninstalled it and got a refund. So, most of the 'improvements' are a bit of a vague memory. I was thinking of going back to it, but it doesn't look like all of the bugs will be ironed out, so I'll probably wait for a (later version) of 12 now.
TeetimeNC wrote on 7/18/2012, 9:30 AM
Arthur, I just tried this in Vegas Pro 11:

1. I opened my Vegas 10 multi-camera project in 11
2. I expanded the tracks, kept the muted tracks
3. I added a pan/crop setting to one of the events
4. I created a created a multicam track - pan/crop is missing
5. I expanded the tracks, kept the muted tracks - pan/crop is still missing

So unless I am missing something, Vegas 11 seems to work the same as Vegas 10 with pan/crop settings.

/jerry