multi-track recording

JohnnyRoy wrote on 2/28/2005, 10:22 PM

> I am looking to use Vegas 5 as a multi-track recoder, much like that of Pro Tools or Steinberg Nuendo or Steinberg Cubase... Is Vegas 5 capable of this?

Yes, absolutely. When you arm the track for record you’ll get a new button that will allow you to select the record input. If you’ve got 16 hardware inputs the you can arm 16 tracks in Vegas to record simultaneously.

The only time you would need ProTools, Cubase, SONAR, etc. is if you need to record MIDI or use VST Instruments. Vegas doesn’t do MIDI/VSTi. Other than that, it’s a great multi-track audio recorder.

~jr

farss wrote on 2/28/2005, 10:58 PM

Let's get honest here, Vegas was once ONLY for multitrack audio work, video got added on later. And you can record MIDI or VST Instruments, anything that makes analogue or digital audio Vegas can handle. It just doesn't play or create MIDI files, subtle difference there I guess but I'd hate to have someone go out and buy another app just to record something when Vegas could already do the job.
Bob.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/1/2005, 5:37 PM

> And you can record MIDI or VST Instruments, anything that makes analogue or digital audio Vegas can handle. [edit] I'd hate to have someone go out and buy another app just to record something when Vegas could already do the job.

Bob, I’m confused by this statement. How would you suggest they HOST those VST Instruments? Or route the output of those VST Instruments into Vegas? I don’t think this is possible. If it is, I’d love to know how.

I would hate to have someone go out and buy Halion or The Grand or any number of VST Instruments and think that they can use them with Vegas because you can’t. As I said, you need ProTools, Cubase, SONAR, etc. to Host these VSTi plug-ins.

~jr

farss wrote on 3/1/2005, 5:59 PM

I wasn't talking about HOSTING them. I was talking about recording them.
Maybe I'm splitting hairs here but as far as I know you can take the outputs of the instruments into Vegas for recording. I'm pretty certain I've read a few posts in other forums about do just this.
Maybe you need to do it through your sound card(s) but I've been able to route anything going out the sound card back into an input and have Vegas record it and still stay in the digital domain. I'll admit it might not be as convenient as being able to do it all in the one package though.
I think also someone was talking about using the midi clock to sync Vegas.
I'm sure no expert on this stuff as I'm not into music creation but I do remember when I first started using Vegas and I needed a simple tune for a personal project I downloaded one of those free MIDI players and the midi version of the song and had the player play it out and digitally wired the output from the player back into Vegas to record it.
Bob.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/1/2005, 8:32 PM

> I wasn't talking about HOSTING them. I was talking about recording them.

OK, I stand corrected. You would NOT have to buy another app to record them. You would just have to buy another app to HOST them. I just wanted to be clear that VST Intruments is not a capability of Vegas (it is a capability of Pro Tools or Steinberg Nuendo or Steinberg Cubase) and you would have to supply something to host them so Vegas alone is not the whole solution.

I’m not trying to argue. I just want to be accurate for when someone finds this thread and says, “I read Vegas can use VST Instruments”. Vegas can record anything you can route to its inputs. How you route it and what you use to host it is left as an exercise for the student. Class dismissed. ;-)

Now if we could just get ReWire mixer support in Vegas so I can rewire an ACID device for VSTi support. Now you’re talkin’!

~jr

Bob Greaves wrote on 3/2/2005, 8:08 AM

Using the time tested and classic approach, Vegas Video has long been able to Track, to Mix, and to Master an audio project of any size or complexity you might need to take on.

However, it is not the BEST tool for the job. If this is something you will do on rare occasion then it would be a waste of time and money to purchase and learn an application package better suited to the task, but if you are thinking of setting up a recording studio whose main focus was to track, mix and master audio projects I would recommend Sonar.

Spot|DSE wrote on 3/2/2005, 8:12 AM

According to whom, Bob? Vegas is far and away a better mixing, mastering, tracking tool than Sonar, IMO. But it has no midi functionality, limited audio looping functionality, but those things aren't part of the mixing or mastering process. Vegas more emulates a true recording environment than anything excepting ProTools, and I've quit using ProTools long ago. I'm also a Sonar power user, and love the app. But it ain't Vegas. And Vegas never, ever crashes. Sonar runs VST plugs, Vegas can too if you have a DX wrapper.
Both are great apps, but to say Vegas is second to Sonar in audio manipulation just isn't so.

Rednroll wrote on 3/2/2005, 8:52 AM

"However, it is not the BEST tool for the job."

I agree with Spot. Vegas for me, is actually the Best tool for the job and I use to be a previous Pro Tools user. I use a combination of Vegas(multitracking/mixing/editing/CD arrangement), Acid(loop sequencing, VSTi's), Studio Vision(midi sequencing), Sound Forge(mastering). Now while Sonar, may be one of the best tools if you're looking for an all-in-one uber program, it is not best at being a focused audio multitracking program like Vegas. I'll take my 4 seperate focused programs and sync them together anyday over Sonar and be able to do more than just having Sonar. Now if Sony would just develop a well focused midi sequencing program that would rewire together with Vegas and Acid, then Sony would be the cats meow in all things music/audio related.

Bob Greaves wrote on 3/2/2005, 9:49 AM

Which is why I mention

the classic approach.

Yes I freely admit that Vegas replicates perfectly a classic approach to multi track audio production, but in the digital age, tradition is taking a back seat and non-traditional methods are quickly emerging as a more dominant production model.

In my studio I have real time control over several outboard sound processors and other devices that use MIDI as a communication protocol. I have four sound modules and three audio effects processors that sit in a rack where they are never touched with human hands because I have full complete control over them from within Sonar. Between Key Binding and customized CAL routines there is nothing in the rack I cannot tweak or control instantly or from within a sequence when tracking mixing or mastering.

I have also been a Cakewalk user since Cakewalk Apprentice version 1 and sort of grew up with the program when learning to use the computer as a studio tool.

I am often involved in capturing MIDI and controlling MIDI instruments and MIDI controlled processes, loops have become more important in many ways. In fact I have used MIDI for many purposes beyond merely using MIDI musical instruments. I find the strengths of Sonar for managing non-traditional methods to be where I am getting a lot done.

I would choose Vegas over Pro Tools if I did not need MIDI, but I guess my familiarity and history with Cakewalk leaves me still favoring Sonar.

I remain on a steep learning curve with Vegas as I came on board during version 4 just before version 5 was released and then soon thereafter upgraded to version 5. I use it (so far) only for editing video using sound clips captured either by the camera or created in other audio applications. So I have not as yet learned how to exploit all of its audio capabilities.

But with Sonar I have quick access to panning laws, quality dithering and track parameter controls that are very strong and easy to isolate and adjust on a per track or per group basis. Per project audio folders are easy to use and manage. Advanced tempo control that Vegas has not yet appreciated that keep a lot of external gear and sound affects triggers perfectly synchronized. MPEX time scaling is pretty good. Track folders help me organize sections of music. Track bouncing / mixing with affects applied, etc. ... I have even used Cakewalk/Sonar to control lights in a "live" environment with a pre-recorded audio bed to underlie the live music.

I began recording music in the late 60s and learned the process in a traditional manner as was required in an analog paradigm. I then got involved with MIDI keyboards and other MIDI controlled non audio devices. I dunno, but I find that the non traditional approach I can use in Sonar is (albeit a paradigm shift from analog) a far better environment for me. In fact, my approach is so non traditional that most of what I have been doing with Cakewalk Pro Audio and Sonar for the last five years cannot be done in Vegas.

Nonetheless ... it is a matter of how a person works and what problems they need to solve with the tools they use. If all we are talking about is a classic approach to multi track, then I would concede that Vegas is absolutely an excellent tool for that job and has no shortcomings that require a work around.

Rednroll wrote on 3/2/2005, 1:51 PM

"Nonetheless ... it is a matter of how a person works and what problems they need to solve with the tools they use. "

Exactly Bob. I believe the question was regarding "multitracking". It seeems like you may view midi sequencing as part of a multitracker, I don't I consider it as midi sequencing. Cakewalk started as a midi sequencing tool, that developed into having audio "multitracking" features, thus I would expect the midi sequencing aspects to have developed along the way. Vegas started as a multitracker and developed into a Video editor. Which is better? Well it depends on who you talk too and what their needs are. I have been doing exactly what you're talking about using Vegas since v1.0. As I mentioned I use Studio Vision for my midi sequencing. So in using Vision I have not gotten up from my seat to change anything in my keyboards/sound modules or external sound FX modules in over 10 years. I control them all using Vision, through program changes and slider parameter adjustments, just like you're doing with Sonar. Vision is regularly synced with Vegas through midi time code, and I can do everything you mentioned. I keep considering jumping to Sonar for it's midi features to use with Vegas, but I haven't because there's features in Vision which Sonar has yet to develop that I use regularly, thus Sonar does not meet my midi workflow requirements. It also falls short in comparison to Vegas on the audio side, thus why I consider Vegas the better multitracker, because I have another tool that makes up for the lack of midi sequencing features in Vegas and in my opinion still beats Sonar's midi features. So to me, this makes Sonar an unfocused app, because it neither excels in audio features, or midi features, but as an all inclusive app, it's pretty damn good. I always make this analogy. What do you prefer to do brain surgery, 4 specialized focused tools, or 1 Swiss Army knife? I prefer the seperate well specialized focused tools, others prefer an all-in-one Swiss army knife. It all depends on the individual and their work requirements. In this case we where comparing "multitrack" recording features, and in that case I would prefer using Vegas. If we where comparing loop sequencing features, I would choose Acid over Sonar. If we where comparing mastering features, I would chose Sound Forge over Sonar. For midi sequencing features, I still prefer Vision over Sonar, and I've used CW5.0,6.0,7.0,8.0,and 9.0 and have tried every version of Sonar demos and still feel that way. Now if I was looking for 1 app that did midi sequencing, audio multitracking/mixing, loop sequencing, VSTi's, I would chose Sonar, but then if Video editing was a major part of my work flow, then I would be SOL in that department.