Multiple V23 Bugs: Color Grade Broken, 4x Slow Render, UX, Pan/Crop.

Thomas97 wrote on 9/22/2025, 5:10 AM

Hello Editors,

I am here to drop a big concern message.

I always used Vegas 20, as so far it is the most stable one:

Vegas 21: has a lot of problems with UI, impossible to use properly - still unsolved.
Vegas 22: has problems with components, FX, and timeline - partially solved.
Vegas 23: I don't know where to start.

I will now list a couple of bugs I've found so far. Given that the previous two versions are still experiencing the same issues, I fear that half of these bugs (or poorly implemented features) will remain. So, I guess this will be the third refund... but let's get started.

Specs: i9-13900K - 4090RTX - 64Gb Ram 6000Hz - Win 11.

NOTE: I previously posted this long comment under the Vegas 23 Thread by @VEGAS_CommunityManager and users suggested creating a separate thread, also to receive community support. So here I am!

1. Color Grading Bug: Curve Tolerance

Comparison between Vegas 23 (left) and Vegas 20 (right).

All the curves have an error with the color grading selection, meaning that if you obtain a curve with a certain angle range, Vegas will completely skip color data, creating 'color holes' in the video (or color jumps).

The same settings in Vegas 20 don't create any problem. Are there some new settings messing with that?
If you are aware of any settings that allow you to revert to the old color system, please advise. Maybe I am not disabling it correctly!

Edit after @RogerS Comment: in my first comment (find it here), I mentioned ACES, thinking it was something auto-active, and that was the cause of the problem. After verifying, I am using the same 8-bit mode, no ACES, nothing outside the standard settings.

2. Color Grading UI: 3x Slower UX

I always color grade videos taken with external cameras (Sony, Xiaomi, Apple).
Since I create my own LUTs, I still need to 'touch' the RGBW Color Grading Graphs. I am used to going from one color to another very quickly as I do small tweaks to all colors until I am satisfied with the result.

The new system in place makes the work slower, and it doesn't work properly:

Selecting a new color to tweak is painfully slow. Before I could modify both 4 colors in 1 click, now I need a total of 4 clicks to select one graph, modify it, then again 4 clicks for another color, modifying it, ... and so on...

Selecting one color, such as Blue, will make the Brightness never disappear anyway. To make the Brightness line disappear, you need to deselect and re-select the desired Color. If you, by mistake, touch the white line, not only will it not work, but resetting it or reaching the dead-space (issue number 1 above) will cause the program to crash.

Video: - or check video file below

Is there a way to revert to the 4 graph panels mode?

Vegas should be the king of speed, considering... well... everything! The all-in-one program that can do anything, superfast.

With this color grading redesign, it not only makes everything slower, but it's also not practical. In previous Vegas versions, we had 4 functional panels that you could drag and drop anywhere. Now we have one window which has 5 panels inside, each one of which has sliders glitching in the UI, going behind the preview, or below pinned curves. Moreover, I need 3x more time to edit colors.

3. Preview is Pixelated [FIXED]

This is something I don't understand...

Again, same clip, same settings, same quality, yet on Vegas 23, the preview, when zoomed in, is pixelated.
Yes, I did check all settings. What is wrong with the program? Did anyone experience the same issue?

Edit after @RogerS Comment: I suppose the issue with this is still related to the colors overall with the new Vegas. While on v20 I don't see pixel color jumps, at least not that evident, on v23 the difference is higher and looks more imprecise instead of sharper. This happens when color grading and, probably, is related to those color jumps. Without color grading, clips are the same and there's no pixel problem.

4. Small UI Bug - Not Critical

Just something small that itches my brain. Curves go above the track layer limit.

5. AI FX: Not Working and/or Crashing Vegas

AI Colorization: sometimes inverts some colors and burns others.
AI Sharpen: Probably it is simply not usable. The basic Sharpen works better, while the AI one only enhances the noise of the camera, making color jumps - aka - pixels more visible when color is shifting in the scene.
AI Upscale: not working at all (yes, I know how to use it). Those rare times it works, it's because I disable and enable it a couple of times. The problem is that doing this 4-5 times will most likely cause the program to crash. Re-opening the project will make AI Upscale lose the previous results.

6. Render Settings and Compatibility Mode: Super Slow Rendering!

One of the main features of this new Vegas is at what speed it can render. It should be faster than previous versions.

While rendering a basic clip is actually faster (by 30%, not that big of a difference, since the website states a 400%), here's the big problem that will make their new Core Engine basically useless: it cannot render FX and transitions properly.

Here's how you will notice that the new Vegas is indeed 400% slower (yes, I am not exaggerating).

Take 2 clips and overlap them to create a normal crossfade effect. You can try out for a 8-second crossfade effect (this is just for testing purposes).

Now render using an old version (I used Vegas 20) and then, the same crossfade time, with Vegas 23, like I did in the example above.

As you can see, a basic crossfade effect took 4x the time with the new Vegas. Amazing! (I want to cry)

You can try any render template, any bitrate. The results can 'improve' by being only 3x slower, to 12x slower if you are using some super-crazy effects like... color grading, black & white, sharpening, Film effects.

7. Rendering: Cancel Causing Crash

This has been reported already, if I recall it correctly, but I'll list it here anyway.
Hitting "cancel" during a rendering process will make Vegas crash.

8. Above 1080p Assets Will Make the Pan-Crop Tool Not Function Properly

I don't understand why, but when using 2k or 4k assets (anything above 1080p), Crop goes crazy: jumping, zooming in and out, and stretching!

Check the video below, and you will see all those behaviors happening when moving the window. This has also been reported for Masks. This could also affect Smart Mask and other FX where zoom is used.

Video: - or check video file below.

Edit after @RogerS Comment: I don't know what's happening, but it's a weird behavior. No effects, no animation, just a plain image being cropped. Here are the image files I used for that project: Vegas Images.

CONCLUSIONS

These bugs and glitches have been found after using the program for 1 project (1 hour) and some more testing (1 hour), for a total of 2 hours. I am sure I will find and report more.

More users are reporting more issues, which is good, and I hope the Developers will address all of them.

But let's be realistic...

This is the third version, which is not working properly after Version 20, with bugs that are critical to the point that make the program unusable.

Because Version 21 and 22 haven't been fully fixed and are now abandoned, how can I trust Vegas 23 to be fixed when we have way more serious issues?

I could go to Premiere, but it's laggy, not compatible with 4k videos and Effects, and slow as hell when combining with After Effects and Media Encoder. Plus, it's missing basic editing functionalities, making it not an editing tool but something to throw right into the bin.

DaVinci is the same as Adobe, but all-in-one. So another program to throw away.

The only option is Vegas to me, and I'll keep defending it even if it has all these issues, but at the same time, it's not something I can accept.

A proper Community Management or Production Management would notify at release time that Vegas 23 has issues A, B, C, ...

Also, how come QA did not notice these problems when testing?

To my eyes, I feel like Vegas Team has no clue about these issues.

The support team is not qualified enough and will tell you that the issues I reported here (like I did for Vegas 22) are problems only on my machine. Two months later, they would contact you, saying those bugs were real and that they have now been fixed. But during the first approach, they will make you feel like an idiot, crazy.

Again, keep in mind that not everyone is in this forum like we do.

We are all here sometimes to complain, sometimes to praise and advise, because we like Vegas and we trust the program. But this is the third time that a bomb has exploded, and it's worse than ever, without considering the lack of communication.

In the meantime, if someone could advise me properly on how to go back to older color spaces so that I can try to fix bug 1, that would be nice. I cannot use Vegas 23 right now, not even to simply cut a clip into 2 pieces.

Vegas Team, please, improve your communication.
I hope this message will be considered and will serve as feedback to solve the issues I reported, and that other editors reported.

Comments

RogerS wrote on 9/23/2025, 4:42 AM

@Thomas97 Thank you for your careful testing and candid feedback.

As a moderator I'd ask that you refrain from making characterizations about the VEGAS team and testers. The only people who can help you are the ones you are calling clueless and unqualified. Just share your experience and trust that it will be taken seriously.

1. Color curves and gaps in image data

Edit (forgot to write text)
In 23 I also see big holes in the RGB parade with a curves adjustment. I'm not sure if this a scopes issue or that the image data is being mangled but something looks wrong.

copying the same event and Fx into VP 22 I don't see these massive gaps on the RGB parade

1-3 New colors?

The only change in 23 I'm aware of is a new color space handling function.

VEGAS Pro 23 introduces the new Extended Color Format Conversion, and to disable this, go to Internal Preferences (press Shift while accessing Tools in the Menu tab), and see Internal Preferences, search the 'Enable Extended Color Format Conversion' from TRUE to FALSE.

3. Color Curves UI

I find the color curves implementation in the CGP slow to use (the original Fx does still exist).

The biggest issue is the slowness in selecting points and manipulating each channel- a layout like below is much more efficient- in one click I selected a point on each curve for the part of the image I want to manipulate.

I don't like that to reset the curves you have to manually click on each one:

I don't see crashes when I miss selecting a curve.

6. Crossfade test
VP 23 5.8 seconds
VP 22 5.8 seconds
VP 21.208 7.7 seconds

8. Pan/crop smoothness

I did a vertical 9:16 UHD project and added text like the OP did. I was able to move it very smoothly on my system (RTX 4060 laptop). What should I test differently?

Thomas97 wrote on 9/23/2025, 5:21 AM

Hi @RogerS!

I understood your intro. My comment was direct feedback, not meant to criticize anyone negatively. I would love to have at least V23 working, after V21 and V22 failing.

Answering your points:

1. Here's a clear example that is very visible when there's a light source, creating a big difference between light and dark. Same curve, same clip, yet that jump appears.

To test, please take a normal clip or even an image from the web, and try dragging around a point of the curve. Even like "Nature Wallpaper" on Google, and taking any image.

If you cannot reproduce this in any way, then I don't know what's wrong on my side 🥲.

----------

3. Do you think the Vegas team will add an option to use the old 4-graphs system? I usually don't want to use external plugins, adding more load to the program. I am used to stressing it a lot.

Regarding the crash, I'll keep my eyes on that when editing with my instant replay on, so if that happens, I'll record the exact clicks I make to cause the crash.

----------

6. I added my video file here for testing purposes. Recorded with Nvidia integrated software, 2k Wide 21:9: click here

Maybe it's related to the format or file size.

Codec h264 AVC

----------

8. For the pan/crop, I guess it's better to test my assets - click here

I just opened a new project, vertical version 1080p 59,97 and added those assets. The problem, as you can see from the video, happens immediately.

The image testing size is: 4843x8610

----------

Is there a way for me to talk to somebody while showing these issues live? I can understand that maybe one of these issues could be related to something happening only to me. But it cannot be that I am the only one having all these problems.

Since these seem quite critical, they are blocking my work, and I cannot use V23.

Thomas97 wrote on 9/23/2025, 5:39 AM

Regarding Color Grading Curves, here's another example following my suggestion above.

This is the image I used.

This is the result: as you can see, the same color grading affects color jumps with V23

Around the waterfall, there are those glowing pixels with a big color jump. On v20, I see no problem instead.

RogerS wrote on 9/23/2025, 5:55 AM

For 1 I did reproduce an issue with gaps in the RGB parade in 23- sorry I forgot to finish the text.

For the pan/crop one I think I can see the issue you are raising. Neither CPU nor GPU usage are high which is confusing.

For the NVIDIA capture, honestly VEGAS doesn't love that format in part as it is variable framerate. At least the Rec601 primaries are now being correctly read with that extended color space setting I mentioned before. If you have a choice I'd recommend OBS.

General
Complete name                  : Jump from Asteorid into Void.mp4
Format                         : MPEG-4
Format profile                 : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                       : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                      : 140 MiB
Duration                       : 17 s 501 ms
Overall bit rate               : 66.9 Mb/s
Frame rate                     : 60.000 FPS
Recorded date                  : 2025
Encoded date                   : 2025-06-19 20:48:03 UTC
Tagged date                    : 2025-06-19 20:48:03 UTCVideo
ID                             : 1
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : High@L5.2
Format settings                : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC         : Yes
Format settings, Reference fra : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP           : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                       : avc1
Codec ID/Info                  : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                       : 17 s 501 ms
Bit rate                       : 66.5 Mb/s
Width                          : 3 440 pixels
Height                         : 1 440 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 2.39:1
Frame rate mode                : Variable
Frame rate                     : 60.000 FPS
Minimum frame rate             : 55.728 FPS
Maximum frame rate             : 66.617 FPS
Standard                       : PAL
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.224
Stream size                    : 139 MiB (99%)
Title                          : VideoHandle
Encoded date                   : 2025-06-19 20:48:03 UTC
Tagged date                    : 2025-06-19 20:48:03 UTC
Color range                    : Limited
Color primaries                : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics       : BT.601
Matrix coefficients            : BT.601
Codec configuration box        : avcCAudio #1
ID                             : 2
Format                         : AAC LC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                       : mp4a-40-2
Duration                       : 17 s 366 ms
Bit rate mode                  : Constant
Bit rate                       : 192 kb/s
Nominal bit rate               : 96.0 kb/s
Channel(s)                     : 2 channels
Channel layout                 : L R
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                     : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode               : Lossy
Stream size                    : 407 KiB (0%)
Title                          : SoundHandle / System sounds
Encoded date                   : 2025-06-19 20:48:03 UTC
Tagged date                    : 2025-06-19 20:48:03 UTC
mdhd_Duration                  : 17366Audio #2
ID                             : 3
Format                         : AAC LC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                       : mp4a-40-2
Duration                       : 17 s 344 ms
Source duration                : 17 s 356 ms
Bit rate mode                  : Constant
Bit rate                       : 192 kb/s
Nominal bit rate               : 96.0 kb/s
Channel(s)                     : 2 channels
Channel layout                 : L R
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                     : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode               : Lossy
Stream size                    : 406 KiB (0%)
Source stream size             : 407 KiB (0%)
Title                          : SoundHandle / Microphone
Encoded date                   : 2025-06-19 20:48:03 UTC
Tagged date                    : 2025-06-19 20:48:03 UTC
mdhd_Duration                  : 17344

For your crossfade are you overlapping the media onto itself or onto another piece of media? If the former yes, performance has gotten worse with that (a decoding limitation?) If two pieces of media can I get a second to try. One workaround if you're doing this a lot is to make a copy of the source media using Windows Explorer and use them with each other (so media a and media b overlap instead of a with itself).

Thomas97 wrote on 9/23/2025, 6:07 AM

Hi Roger,

Thank you for verifying and testing.

Unfortunately, I cannot use OBS as it won't record in native quality. I am also a game Developer and I produce videos as well. Nvidia allows source recording, outputting the original footage quality, while OBS records the screen.

Anyway, that's not a big deal if rendering gets slower during crossfade effects.

Answering your question, I am overlapping the media onto itself.

I do this type of crossfade when, for example, I make cuts of the same clip and then fade from one part to another. The fade never exceeds 60 frames (1 second), but the 8-second one was a good test to try out the new encoder.

I fear that since it's that slow, it means there's something wrong going on behind. If there's something broken, then it may cause crashes at some point, during the rendering process, and when reaching crossfade effects to render.

At the moment, what I care about the most is the RGB grading and pan/crop effects. Those are the ones not allowing me to use Vegas.

And, clearly, having an option to enable the old graphs view would be absolutely amazing.

Thanks again Roger for your work.

andyrpsmith wrote on 9/23/2025, 6:11 AM

Thomas97, I am seeing less sharp text in the V23 FX window compared to V22 and earlier versions are you also seeing this?. Also regarding your UI comment about the fade curves it appears similar in V22 and earlier versions as well.

RogerS wrote on 9/23/2025, 6:12 AM

For the CGP I suggest writing a brief feature request here: www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-feature-requests--134374/

I also think it would be much better with separate color curves, the ability to reset one or all and the ability to make points on all curves with an eyedropper.

For crossfades your workflow is totally normal- it just seems like it's a limitation of the software at present on the decoding, not encoding, side. (My framerate tanks trying to play back such a crossfade).
For crashes if you get a VEGAS problem reporter dialog please do send it in with extra details and you can even include a link to this thread. If there are any hints in Windows Reliability History that could also help (which module crashed?)
I just see it as being slow, not unstable with self crossfades.

Understood on OBS- not sure why NVIDIA can't output proper fixed 60fps files; is it that the source drops under 60fps sometimes?

Thomas97 wrote on 9/23/2025, 6:22 AM

Thomas97, I am seeing less sharp text in the V23 FX window compared to V22 and earlier versions are you also seeing this?. Also regarding your UI comment about the fade curves it appears similar in V22 and earlier versions as well.

@andyrpsmith Hi!

I probably forgot about the curves in prev versions. v20 looks just fine.

Regarding the FX window, this is what I see.

Please note I have 2 monitors in 2k, one is 16:9 and one is Wide (21:9). Maybe share a screenshot so I can check.

@RogerS I added the suggestion, thanks!

I'll report if a crash happens!

I don't know why Nvidia doesn't support CBR...
All I know is that as soon as you use a 2k or higher monitor, Nvidia will record in HEVC, meaning higher compression and VBR for best performance.

Source is around 165 or higher, so it's just a way for the program to optimize recording.

1080p allows AV1 recording, but that's not my case.

andyrpsmith wrote on 9/23/2025, 6:34 AM

V22, the text - the letters are all the same intensity.

V23 the letters have parts where the intensity is less making the word less clear than in V22.
Look at the about near the bottom the first half is brighter than the second half of the word.

The iisue is in the text of the FX window that opens after choosing the FX not in the FX window picker.

In my example I chose the Mercalli Pro stabilization FX.

Thomas97 wrote on 9/23/2025, 6:41 AM

In my case, everything looks fine.

But I know what you are talking about, and that was happening to me with v21 on a 1080p laptop.

Maybe try adjusting some settings here when starting the program.

andyrpsmith wrote on 9/23/2025, 6:45 AM

Thanks I will give that a try.

RogerS wrote on 9/23/2025, 7:01 AM

Just to clarify, VBR is fine, it's VFR that causes issues with editing.

andyrpsmith wrote on 9/23/2025, 7:19 AM

Unfortunately none of the options make a difference - Oh well see what happens with the upcoming updates. Many thanks for looking though.

Thomas97 wrote on 9/23/2025, 7:47 AM

@RogerS Yes sorry, I meant indeed VFR. If that will cause many problem, I'll use Shutter Encoder - it's a great option that I found in the Vegas Subreddit time ago.

@andyrpsmith There's another option just to experiment. In the Nvidia Settings, select DSR factors and force it to be higher. Basically your GPU will be ready to output higher resolution, ignoring the screen's actual display size.

Right click on Desktop --> Nvidia Panel

Then, in the Windows display settings, choose a higher resolution like 2k.

Don't worry if the Desktop icons will resize on one side, as the desktop will become bigger.

Once you revert to 1080p (or directly disable DSR), everything will go back to normal. But like this, you can test if the issue persists. Also, verify if you have nahimic.exe running in the background. That is a deprecated sound plugin from MSI and present in all 2024 or older motherboards, which creates a lot of problems with Vegas.

andyrpsmith wrote on 9/23/2025, 8:26 AM

Many thanks. Max resolution option was below 2K (my screen is 1920 x 1080), but chose max . The issue persists, I do not have nahimic running, I remember the issues about this in the past. It seems to be in the display of the FX. I seem to be the only one with it. I also changed various monitor setting with no change. Maybe the developers can scan if they changed the settings while they are looking into the other display issues identified.