Multiple video files won't work well as chapters??

mickbadal wrote on 5/29/2007, 9:47 AM
I'm new to DVDA 3.0b and though I love the new options it makes available to me (such as video transitions between menus), I am surprised at the learning curve I'm going through, and how inflexible the product seems to be with the basics.

I currently have about 50 separate clips that I want to add to a project, and then simply offer the following on the DVD:

1) Allow the user to play all from start right through to finish
2) Allow the user to navigate to a scene selection submenu, choose a scene (one of the 50 video clips), then have the DVD play from that clip through all the remaining clips.

I've spent hours trying to figure out how to group these 50 video files together in DVDA, order & re-order them to my heart's content, and then link them to both a "play all" and to a chapter submenu. But DVDA does not seem to be friendly to separate files.

The only option I've been able to find is to render one giant file with all of these clips, then add 50 markers to the file to mark chapters, then set a scene select. One of the reasons I don't like this, is it limits me from further quick edits/customizations of the project - such as changing the order of the chapters while in DVD studio, or adding 1 more video clip in the middle of the tracks in the future and quickly recutting the DVD. I like maximum flexibility and control over my individual video clips.

In my previous DVD software, I could simply throw the clips in, group them and order them however I wanted, and I'm done. It seems to me like grouping and ordering multiple video clips like this should be a cinch in DVDA.

In fact, I would expect a more advanced tool like DVDA to allow you to set your chapters *wherever* you want to in your media, whether multiple points within a file, multiple files, or even a combination thereof on the same DVD.

Am I missing something with DVDA, or is it really this constrained?

Thanks for the help in advance,
Mickey

Comments

johnmeyer wrote on 5/29/2007, 10:19 AM
In my previous DVD software, I could simply throw the clips in, group them and order them however I wanted, and I'm done. It seems to me like grouping and ordering multiple video clips like this should be a cinch in DVDA.

That's all you need to do. Render to 50 MPEG-2 (and AC-3, for the audio) files, and drop them into your project.

You can put them all in a playlist, and put them in any order you wish. If you want them to play in different order when the user presses another button, you can create another playlist. Drop the playlists on a menu, and that's all.

If you want to be able to navigate between all the MPEG-2 files as if they were rendered in one file (i.e., create chapters instead of titlesets), then put all the MPEG-2 files into a "Music Compilation" (which is badly named because it is very useful for video as well). Each MPEG/AC3 combo becomes a chapter mark within this entity. This is how I recommend proceeding. The only downside is that you cannot add additional chapter marks within an MPEG file if you choose this way of doing things. Also, if you want to have a second way of navigating, or if you want to be able to play just one clip and then return to the menu, I don't think it can be done with this approach.
bStro wrote on 5/29/2007, 10:20 AM
In addition to using one large file, you have the options of:

1. Setting the End Action of each video to link to the next video you want to play.
2. Insert a Playlist in your project and adding any videos you want to that Playlist, or
3. Insert a Music Compilation and adding any videos you want to that, or

Options #1 and #2 will add each video as a titleset, but play those title sets in the order you choose. Using the Next Chapter and Previous Chapter buttons may be a problem, though, because the DVD player manufacturers have not agreed on the behavior of these buttons when multiple title sets are involved. Option #3 will create one title set and designate each video as a chapter within that title set. Also, Option #3 allows you to create a Scene Selection Menu based on it, which is not so easily done for the other two options.

Rob
mickbadal wrote on 5/29/2007, 11:09 AM
"You can put them all in a playlist, and put them in any order you wish. If you want them to play in different order when the user presses another button, you can create another playlist. Drop the playlists on a menu, and that's all."

But how can I accomplish a chapter menu this way? I want a submenu with chapters, showing thumbnails from the chapter, that a user can select and then the DVD will play from that chapter through to the end of the DVD. A playlist doesn't allow me to do this.

"If you want to be able to navigate between all the MPEG-2 files as if they were rendered in one file (i.e., create chapters instead of titlesets), then put all the MPEG-2 files into a "Music Compilation" (which is badly named because it is very useful for video as well). Each MPEG/AC3 combo becomes a chapter mark within this entity. This is how I recommend proceeding."

But it appears to me that using this option doesn't allow for any main menu or scene selection submenus. I like to produce DVDs with motion/graphical main menu's, graphical submenu's, etc. and it appears that I will lose all of that ability with a "Music Compilation".
mickbadal wrote on 5/29/2007, 11:24 AM
"In addition to using one large file, you have the options of:

1. Setting the End Action of each video to link to the next video you want to play."

I've tried this, but this is an incredible amount of work to setup manually for 50 clips (dbl-click clip, select end action, drop down destination, navigate through the 50 clips to select the right one; do this 50 times). Also a headache to re-do if you want to re-order some clips.

And even if I do this, the "Prev" button does not move back to the previous clip when I preview the DVD and select a chapter - it just keeps going to the beginning of the current clip (whereas if I create a "scene selection" using one file with markers instead, then that button works fine). Nor do the "<" and ">" buttons work. So the option isn't very helpful if I can't navigate around to chapters.

"Option #3 will create one title set and designate each video as a chapter within that title set. Also, Option #3 allows you to create a Scene Selection Menu based on it, which is not so easily done for the other two options."

Can you explain? As far as I can tell, with "Music Compilation" I am unable to make video menus & submenus the way I want to (see my original post). But perhaps I'm missing something here.
mickbadal wrote on 5/29/2007, 11:49 AM
"In addition to using one large file, you have the options of:

...
2. Insert a Playlist in your project and adding any videos you want to that Playlist, or ..."

Unfortunately, it also appears that Playlists will not allow the use of the "Prev" or "<" to back up to the previous chapter. The situation is getting worse.
bStro wrote on 5/29/2007, 12:56 PM
Can you explain? As far as I can tell, with "Music Compilation" I am unable to make video menus & submenus the way I want to (see my original post). But perhaps I'm missing something here.

After you insert a music compilation and add files to it, right-click the button for that compilation and choose Insert Scene Selection Menu. That adds a submenu with buttons for each chapter, which is exactly what you asked for in your original post.

Rob
ScottW wrote on 5/29/2007, 1:04 PM
Use of Next/Prev or >/< is designed to work with chapters, not titles. As a result, whether or not "Next" or "Prev" works with titles is a function of the DVD player. Some DVD players implement things such that you can proceed to the next title (which title usually depends on the order that you added it to the project, though DVDA does now allow you to re-arrange title order). I've seen very few players that implement Prev across titles.

--Scott
Per1 wrote on 5/31/2007, 4:18 PM
Next/Prev or >/<:

I had this problem on "cheap" DVD-players (100 USD about) but no problem on 1000-1500 USD DVD-players. Naturally, most folks have the 100 USD players... It is the player, not DVDA, that causes the problem I guess
johnmeyer wrote on 5/31/2007, 7:26 PM
As bstro said, the Music Compilation, with the Scene Selection menu created by right-clicking on the media and selecting "Insert Scene Selection Menu" will do exactly what you want, and give you the navigation that you desire. There should be almost no work involved at all.
mickbadal wrote on 6/1/2007, 11:28 AM
Thanks everyone but after further consideration, I decided to bite the bullet and do it the way Architect expects for a menu-based DVD - one single file, with markers for chapters. When I do things this way, it seems to work exactly as I want, with no hiccups. So why fight city hall.

This requires more work on my part for prep and if I ever want to add/remove clips from the project (my past DVD software had no problem treating separate files as chapters, so I could add/remove clips rapidly to the project; with architect, I'll have to render a completely new mpg2 and modify chapter markers every time I want to do that). Regardless, I can live with it, especially given the new features that Architect offers which I didn't have available before.

Thanks again.

Mickey
johnmeyer wrote on 6/1/2007, 2:27 PM
Well, it would have worked if you put all the MPEG files into a Music Compilation. I do it all the time. However, the way you did it gives you the ultimate in flexibility and navigation. The only downside is having to render the whole thing as one file.

However, one "trick" to help you doing that is that you can still create your DVD as 50 separate Vegas projects, and then when it comes time to render, just drop all 50 VEG files on the Vegas timeline. You can even use a simple script to automatically put markers between each event (these will be transferred to DVDA as chapter markers). Then, render the whole thing to a single MPEG-2 file. With this workflow, you have the advantage of working with smaller projects, and not having to start over from scratch if you blow one piece, but all the other advantages, previously discussed, of having the final output in one MPEG-2 file (and, of course, the associated AC3).