That's a coooooool site. :) I've considered buying music from there, but don't have any extra money to buy music lately. :)

I think it's going to be a few years before the dust settles on this.
I'd liken it to the invention of the printing press and maybe even the photocopier.
But maybe there's a big difference, the printing press changed the world but it still produced a physical entity, something we could hold and have pride of posession in. Now that it's all just 1s and 0s it doesn't feel like we have something of value.
Maybe that's at the core of the problem, we never really valued interllectual property but the object it was bound up in. Now that it is almost entirely abstract and has no physical form it simply ceases to have value so it's hard to feel we've 'stolen' something that we don't feel has any value.

Sorry, just late night ramblings. Nice to see a decent slice of the money going to the artist, that's a step in the right direction. i wonder how it'll turn out if you tried to buy the rights to some of it for a video.

Not bad, but you might try e-bay too. I bought a couple of buy out libraries from artists doing their own thing, and they give full rights to the music for video and multimedia purposes. Just check to make sure that the music you are buying isn't copied from someone else! Tracksnow 1-4 are very good, by the way.

Magnatune is nothing new, there is also weed and broadjam. This is where musicians that don't tour, don't have label deals, don't have distribution all go. And it's a good portal for them to do it. Eventually, I think this is how all music will be sold, but I hope it's not in my lifetime, because the label system, regardless of it's frailties and faults, helps prevent crap from entering the system, and there is a LOT of crap. People don't have to wade thru all the crap to find what they want, but they eventually will have no choice.
Either way, this site still can't/doesn't provide licensing for sync, and they won't be able to. That's a separate issue.
What's interesting about these sites is that without regard to anything else, they are in violation of the mechanical licensing laws, which are compulsory. Doesn't matter to me, unless it's setting the stage for a future system where mechanicals are abolished, which would matter a great deal to me.

. . okay dokey Spot. I'll keep your well-experienced knowledge in mind. Your comment about, "What's interesting about these sites is that without regard to anything else, they are in violation of the mechanical licensing laws, which are compulsory. " . . is valuable.

As this is a Forum, I was after getting feedback . . . As to the content, time will tell. I thought there was some excellent tracks. Licenced too!

Nice to see the artists getting "50%" though. Easy and without comeback?

Grazie

Again, I believe that this is how record sales will be accomplished in the future. The artist getting 50% is nice, but it's not realistic and in the end, this is what will continue to damage the industry. Artists that are also promoters that are also distributors that are also PR that are also management that are also artists don't get as much accomplished as an artist with all those support mechanisms. So one of two things has to happen;
1. the artist gets more money somewhere, somehow. From higher sales fees or finding an investor that can support them for marketing purposes
2. The artist makes the little money made from this sort of a situation, and therefore produces less due to the lack of support, and not only does output go down, so does creativity and motivation due to the lack of revenue.

Either way, we're left with a lesser quality picture than we had before, aren't we?
And before anyone starts to flame me on this one, keep in mind that this is my job, day and and day out, 24/7. I've been in the recording industry my entire adult life, with recording agreements with many, many labels. This doesn't make me better, but does make me experienced, and therefore fairly qualified to comment. I don't agree with what's happening, only because we're already seeing it have severe impact on our business. Just as we're seeing it affect the film and video industry too. And the department store biz, and the yadayadayada biz....Walmart Rules, I guess. Quality doesn't matter, just knock that crap out and get the next shelf filled with crap. Gotta keep the crap coming, don't worry about quality, only worry about keeping the shelf full of crap.

Spot, on their information page it lists the quotes for license on using the music in movies, commercials, etc. What extra is needed for sync rights?

Dave T2

I think they should tighten the laws in regard to Illegal copying and Selling. Perhaps even bigger penalties. Also they should relax the laws on non money making usage. Providing these are used at fairly high compression. (Anyone can record what they want off the Radio Lets be realstic)

Make songs using the new scratch resistant vinyl at 24 Bits and make songs very high quality with some costs going into developement. I would not mind paying extra for better quality... and to police the couterfeiters.

I do not want Music videeos though with my records though Perhaps High quality stills ?

Spot, I need some of your advice. What do I do if I want music to go with the vids I make? Remember I'm really starting out on this. Do I "stem" my creativity - no flaming here - promise. Tell me what would be your best advice? As I say I want to have music that fits with my flics . . what can I do? . .And yes I've read much of what you written already . . . .

Best regards,

Grazie

Ha Grazie old Boy Welcome to my Boat. There is only one way.. on a ship that is going down and that is use royalty free Music .".Ah Hoy there what what ..Well shiver me timberRRRs. If you want a Life raft then spot cant throw what he dont have.. AH ha Spot now thaat marks the .... anyway me ole legs gettin waterlogged so of to cull some more a them um blockybusters.

Grazie,

Here are some other options. What about:

1. Commissioning something from a young, "up and coming," preferably local, musician / band?

2. Getting permission to use something from a band that has self-produced and distributed its own original CDs?

3. Hiring/bartering with a local classical or jazz musician to improvise or perform something in the public domain? (i.e., most classical compositions)

4. Composing something yourself in Acid?

5. Using a buy-out royalty-free solution like Smartsound or Digital Juice?

I've used each of these options at different points in time.

Thanks Guys for responding. I'm guessing, and I don't know, SPOT has lost patience with me . .

. .. silence is its own reward . . .?

Mark - you are the best!!! . . . . But where do you really stand on this . . .?

BS how would SPOT's point fit with what you are suggesting:

"What's interesting about these sites is that without regard to anything else, they are in violation of the mechanical licensing laws, which are compulsory. "

In your:
1. "Commissioning something from a young, "up and coming," preferably local, musician / band?" - I like this . . I like the idea I would be supporting an up and coming muso .. great! BUT: How far and when would they come knocking at my door for royalties? Or whatever?

2. "Getting permission to use something from a band that has self-produced and distributed its own original CDs?" . . I don't think I can go near this . . but yes, I understand. I understand self produced, but what if they have done a . . Jimi Hendrix track - yeah?

3. "Hiring/bartering with a local classical or jazz musician to improvise or perform something in the public domain? (i.e., most classical compositions)" - . . Some of my other concerns are repeated here . .

4. "Composing something yourself in Acid?" . . .Looks good! I like the SOUND of this.

5. "Using a buy-out royalty-free solution like Smartsound or Digital Juice?" - Okay, I thought the site I posted here was part of this - wrong?


BS, have you had any "comeback" as a result of your, "I've used each of these options at different points in time."

Thanks guys . ..

Grazie

Maybe I'm missing something here. Paying royalties is part of the cost of doing business. As such, it gets passed along to the client. Your client wants to use a Madona song in the promotional piece you're working on for them -- buy the rights. Don't want to or can't afford this cost -- use buy out music. Or create your own.

The medium has nothing to do with it. An artist works to produce a piece -- music, a play, a novel, a video or film, it doesn't matter what -- to feed himself and his family. It's his work, he owns it, he has the right to determine how it gets distributed. Want to use it, respect his rights. We, as consumers, have the right to purchase a copy of the work, but absolutely no right to make a copy of it ourselves. There is virtually no gray area in this. We also have the obligation to respect the copyright owner's rights. Using his or her work without permission is no different than using his car without permission. Lots of people do it, but that doesn't make it right.

The place for debate with regard to international copyright law is the U.S. Congress I think there is much to be wished for with regard to change, both from my vantage point as a producer of art and a consumer of it. I've written my Congressman already. Give it a shot. Maybe if enough of us make a racket, something will happen. The laws have been changed several times in the past 25 years and further changes are being contemplated right now.

Sometimes I may sound a little annoyed but IM really not I get vey Passionate about something like these issues and my frustration is against the laws and the way they are enforced not the fantastic Knowledge base that this forum is. ITS a feeling of Powelessness against Authoritys who if wanted and its your turn. TURN on you.

Spot If your out there Help US to understand the Laws better In Particular Grazie who needs to make a buck. I think there is no hope apart from copyright free.

Right / Wrong

I reckon the first Person who gets the Bright Idea to liase with Music companies and find a cheap way to sell COPYRIGHT agreements to small business will be A millionaire this time next year.

Actually My Moneys On farrs his knowledge seems to be Vulcan !

Off topic a little... I have some aquaintances who opened for Allison Krause and Union Station a few months back. They played a few songs of their own and a few cover tunes. A month later they got a bill from ASCAP for $16,000.00 for performance rights. They settled for $1200.00, twice what they were paid for the engagement. I have to agree that part of this debate has something to do with sticking it to "THE MAN." Artists do deserve to be paid for their work, but something tells me the artists aren't the ones asking for (and receiving, for that matter) the exhorbitant fees associated with leasing music, movie footage, etc.

Hey, Grazie.

I have no idea what "mechanical licensing laws" are. I'd defer to Spot or others to explain.

Also, let me caveat some of this by saying that, in many cases, I've done this on an informal "handshake" basis with people whom I know and trust. In other cases, we've exchanged some fairly specific letters or other correspondence. In still other cases, we've put together a contract in tight legal-ese language. It really depends on the level of mutual trust between you and your collaborator(s), and the level of risk involved. Also, my experience is based primarily on low-budget productions in the U.S. Things may change at higher levels of finance or in other countries, like the U.K.

With that out of the way, in response to your other queries:

1. If you're commissioning something, just negotiate your terms and write it up, as a contract (formal or informal), ahead of time, and both of you keep copies. Make clear whether the work performed is done on a flat fee basis, by royalties, barter, or whatever. Make sure that the musician warranties to you that they have the ability to convey rights to you. In return, you should specify what rights you are using (i.e., how long, what projects, "unlimited," etc.) Some folks will be happy to do this for you just for the experience and a copy of the final piece. Just make sure it's written up this way. (It's really similar to a "model or talent release form," of which there are many examples on the web.)

2. That's why I said "original" CDs. Look at the back of the CD. Who has writer's copyright credit for the song? Who has producer copyright? Who did the engineering and recording? If they're all the same person, you've got a winner. Negotiate terms, write up a contract, get that warranty that they have rights, and you should be in business.

3. Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate and write it up so there's no misunderstanding.

4. I have to admit that I sold my copy of Acid Pro 3.0 after playing with it, and finally admitting that I didn't have the musical talent to create anything I really liked with it. Maybe I just wasn't patient enough. But lots of other people with minimal musical background use it successfully and create great stuff. I think you probably know where the Acid forum is.....

5. Here are the links:
Smart Sound
Digital Juice

>"BS, have you had any "comeback" as a result of your, "I've used each of
> these options at different points in time.""

You mean, any problems with people griping or demanding royalties at a later date? No, none so far. See my caveats above. Most (not all) people will treat you fairly if they feel you are treating them fairly. Also, since most of my projects are low budget (and low-return!), there's not much incentive for anyone to go after me. You can't get blood from a stone, after all.

I'm sure there will be people who will say that I'm treading on thin ice, but I think if I had to, I could show that I made every reasonable effort to avoid tromping on anyone's copyright.

Hope this helps.

JackW - I totally agree with what you are saying . . and your words may strike a note of clarity and warning with those who are "new" to the aspect of respecting other artists work and creations. Hey, would I be perturbed by someone "using" and earning money off my video creations? You betcha!

Q: Can I use, for sale, copyright-free music - whatever that means - "synched" to a video I've filmed and I've edited?

I like some of the suggestions posited thus far. I am not going to use Madge's work or another artists work on stuff I try to "make a buck" on.

I just thought that the site I posted at the front of this "hot" thread may, just may provide us with a solution where everybody can be satisfied. Nothing more, nothing less . .

But I guess I should have known better . . .

Thanks guys for your input . . that includes all of you!

Grazie

Thank you BS! You got in your reply while I was thinking long and hard about a reply to our friends here....

. . so far I've written, rewritten and then scrubbed what I was going to post! - Get the piicture?!?

Best regards,

Grazie

After reading the licensing agreements at Magnatune, it seems they are licensing specifically for sync rights (among other things). I don't understand why there would be a question there. I appreciate the reference as some of the music is very good, especially the classical.

A source I use for royalty free music is Fresh Music (freshmusic.com). When I buy products I get a sync license from them.

If one is doing higher dollar and volume work, the needle-drop libraries are a good deal, but I'm not at that point.....yet.

Jay Rose has a good discussion of licensing and libraries on his website dplay.com

Okay . . will somebody please explain, to me, everybody else most know this, I don't, what a Synch License is? Thank you ..

Tired, and not a little confused!

Grazie

Grazie :) This is probably a waste of good white space.







But if you want to use some of the music I composed in alien wars feel free just gimme a credit so Ill always be there at the end

I thing there is a way round all Grazie this and the technology is here already.
I will attempt to explain, This will remove the need for any copyright infringements.

I make a wedding video, this video has 3 music tracks A, B & C. i finish the video and then remove the audio tracks A, B & C from the video, before passing onto client in digital form (HD, DVD, Media player) so no no copying of music to client.

The client plays video in the PC setup and when the music is required in the video it looks up the music in their library and plays at the correct time in the video, also adjusting any volume at the same time (something the client could do manually, but is now automated). As it is their music playing and they have purchased it every thing legit. The problem arise's if the client does not have the music, but they can purchase and away they go.

This makes it fair as only people who own the music can hear it, fair on us as we don't end up paying extortionate rates for music the client already has.
The same could be applied to playing your music anywhere, instead of tacking your CD/MP3 player with you you just stream it to your player wherever you are, thus having you whole collection at your fingertips.

Will never happen as it it is not good for the record companies, as they only sell the one copy instead of loads, on CD, MP3, memory Stick etc.

Still I can dream..... keep going Grazie