My overall point is to point to the fact that we can't let "tolerance" be a buzz word and a guise to intolerance - but that may not be very popular or desireable for someone to back. Don't know though. I've never done anything like this before - any idea as to where I could find what a "solid synopsis" would look like / read like?

I don't want it to be something so "tell you what to do" either. I want to certainly emphasize the wonderfull things that tolerance has lead to, but that it can turn into a lack of tolerance and ultimately intolerance if not watched carefully.

Dave

A worthwhile subject. You've indicated that you're thinking of a global approach.
The desirable starting point is a lot of research into the subject. Keep in mind that there is a big world outside of USA. Your research will identify key issues from which you'll select those around which you can shoot or obtain material. Some well known issues have been extensively explored so those you might leave alone unless you can approach from a different angle (eg. was the Jewish holocaust just down to Hitler, or was this an outcome with its roots in Christian antisemitism). The Crusades. Slavery. Racial and class prejudices - examples - the old White Australia policy. Colonialism.
This is looking like needing a lot of stock footage as well as expert talking heads.
Can you find a kernel of the argument to present at a more local level and one more easily treated? People often assume that all notable atrocities are the doings of major figures of influence (dictators, presidents, kings) but usually they utilise prejudices existing in their populations (KKK, Senator Macarthy and so on). How do different nations deal with similar issues (see USA and Britain and "communist sympathisers").
So once you have your research done and identified a new approach to your subject, then you write the script and seek funding. Not a problem!

hmmmmmm.....

Now I have to decide if I can afford to go after it, considering all the pre-funding time it will take, but I want to do it, so I'll have to start and then see where it takes me I guess :)

Thanks for the input serena - preciate it.

Dave

Dave,
I was reading some article where a Polish? man who ran a newspaper printed some drawings of Muhammed and b/c he refused to apologize for doing that (as muslims have a big problem with depictions or images of holy people or God) now his life and his staff's lives have been threatened to the point to where they had to beef up security.

Tolerance is a hard line to walk. I don't know that anyone does it well; we tend to fall off one side or the other as we are influenced by our views and biases. America screams for tolerance but in so doing, we become less tolerant of those who are intolerant. Those who are intolerant are very tolerant of those who agree with them, even to the point of overlooking some things due to a common goal or understanding. How do we achieve tolerance without forcing our agenda of tolerance on those around us and hence become intolerant? Hence the dilemma of the postmodern world.
Christianity is becoming so untolerable to the masses in the US that the schools are calling the holidays "nonstudent days". Muslims in an area on the east coast has asked the school district for some of their holy days off and they have been met with intolerance stating that the school board will most likely do away with "nonstudent days" surrounding holidays and substitute them with "nonstudent days" that do not fall on religious holidays but on presidents day and so forth...
In the name of tolerance we tend to fall on one side or the other; no one can really walk that line.

Well, the real tolerance, IMO, is Love.

Un conditional love that will separate the person from their actions, not saying that actions don't have consequences, but that the person is loved in spite of things that are done that you do not approve of / like.

But I agree with you jrazz about how it can't really seem to work and that's part of the purpose of a deal like this.

Dave

"Well, the real tolerance, IMO, is Love."

I had better prefix this contribution by stating that this is philosophical in nature (not religious).

This was a line I began thinking about after I'd made my "contribution". Humans seem to have a propensity for intolerance, perhaps better described as "tribalism". We like to gather with people of like views and to avoid those whose ideas conflict with ours. Social interaction is easier when everyone is working from the same "rule book", even if some of those rules are hard (eg leaving newborns out on the hillside to determine that they're tough enough to survive, or killing twins).
Religious conflict is a prime example of this sort of thing and currently is a major excuse for all manner of undesirable actions on both personal and national scales. The interesting thing is that all the major religions are really the same (living a worthwhile life and understanding the unknowable) and the arguments are really about the fine print. The Christian churches are a fine example of falling out and war over the fine print. Different interpretations of the scriptures, calling each other rude names, and so on. Yet what did Christ say? Love your neighbour as yourself. Love each other as I have loved you. The parables speak directly about the error of loving only your neighbours in your particular sect. Let alone the error of going to war to correct the views of other tribes.
Perhaps treating the topic along such lines would be easier and provide some freshness to the debate.

Please - noone take any offense at this, and don't let it be considered any kind of flamebait in the least. I'm thinking out loud and using you guys as a sounding board, and I greatly appreciate the fact that you are letting me. Thank you.

Serena - I think you're seeing some of where I'm going with this. I have to say that I am Christian and I personally believe that Christ is the only way to heaven, that He is the Son of God and that there is only One true God. This makes some things difficult for me. However I believe in Love, There is such love in christianity that has been tossed aside by man. I don't believe that anyone who does not "believe in their heart that Christ was the Son of God and Confess with their mouth that he was raised from the dead" *(not exact wording but that's basically the only real requirement that I know of the bible putting on salvation)* will be saved. I can't in good concience tell something that conflicts with that, but The bible also says that we are no longer "under the law."

I also would not go with the view point that we are what we do, but that what we do, and who we are not always one and the same. That you can love the person even though you do not love what they do.

My main focus on something like this would be that Love is the answer, that Love leads to tolerance, and that Tolerance From Love may not mean that there are no consequences to our actions, but that We need to Love each other even if we don't love what they do.

That kind of thing. It's kinda Love/Tolerance - but I'm still in very very early staging here, never done anything like this before either.

Dave

Dont forget the intolerance shown to those who dont believe in religon or a higher power/spirit. I have always found that good docs always present the information that allows the viewer to gain what they can from it and make their own decision. Kind of like writing a term paper and presenting both sides objectively rather than subjectively.

Without the risk on getting too far off topic, I have found that EVERY one has some sort of intolerance to those who dont think or believe like ourselves. Like Serena has said, people tend to gather in groups that support their views (i.e. Christians, Democrats, Republicans, Satanists, porners, war mongers, peace hippies, etc...) The goal of one day a total tolerance amongst man is an impossible feat as we as humans aren't happy unless we have something to complain about.

One needs to look no further than within ourselves for this example. Every day we get dressed and wonder if we look "okay" or "acceptable." People worry each day if they are too fat or too skinny to attract a good looking mate. People are always comparing themeselves to others around them to decide if they are part of the "norm" or not. Then when you add in the extremely different beliefs, opinions, and views that some will fight wars and die for, you get the bigger picture.

Furthermore, what/who really defines tolerance? Is tolerance really based on one's self and acceptance of what is tolerable to themselves or is it set by a community or laws, or states and country? Further, who actually decides when the line of tolerance in crossed and is it just accountable to the area or country you reside? Is it political? Then how do you teach tolerance and what set of standards is used in teaching tolerance? Society has too much of an impact on tolerance to a point that those that disagree with the community majority are deemed misfits or outcasts.

WRT Love as the real tolerance, how can we define love as the tolerance when there is no scientific way to prove that love or even true love truly exists. While I may be out there on a limb, I strongly believe that "love" is a state of mind or moreso, a pyshcological state that is a good feeling when things are going right for someone and a bad feeling when things aren't going right. How many times have people fallen "in love" growing up as a teenager only to meet someone knew and to being the process all over again.

Tolerance to me, is people's undying need for acceptance, or as I call, "love." We all strive for approval from those around us and those that care deeply about. At times, we do things or believe things that goes against those same people believe and that is when true tolerance begins to blossom. But be careful, because tolerance can also be confused with immunity. One needs to look no further than the 50's and look at the lifestyle and entertainment and compare it to some of the things we get away with in modern day. I would be willing to bet that 90% of all shows today would be UNACCEPTABLE back then because of the lanaguage and sexual innuendos and references. Just like back then it was forbidden to show a toilet in a bathroom or a bed that a married couple used to copulate in (hence the two single beds.)

History has shown that the more exposure we have to something, the more desensitized we become to it. Some of the porn that is shot today would have been like the Scarlet Letter decades ago. Now, you cant turn anywhere without being exposed to it. While many still consider it very taboo, that number is decreasing every day as we speak until the day we see it available at Best Buy (currently some stores carry the NC-17 stuff.)

Ill save my views on tolerance on war for another day. That would likely be several pages.

PMasters says............Kind of like writing a term paper and presenting both sides objectively rather than subjectively.

I totally agree with paticks view on this , I would also say there is a fine line between tolerance and apathy

This is a very interesting topic and I think important, but I'm wary of keeping it going because its only connection to Vegas is filmmaking. I suppose one can argue that Vegas is about film making and we can slip off into debates about angels and pins.
However, me not being able to resist, if you're going to make a documentary that purports to make a worthwhile treatment of an issue I think it's essential that you put aside your own bias (to the extent possible). Otherwise your product will be sermon, not a persuasive film. Preaching to the coverted is generally said to be unnecessary, although this has never stopped anyone doing it.
The word "love" in English is greatly overloaded with multiple meanings. Here we're not concerned with sexual aspects, but with those meanings associated with "putting the other fellow's welfare very high among my priorities". Now if your concern for his welfare is conditional on his accepting your view of your world (particularly your spiritual world), then if I were making this documentary that would be my central issue. My example of disunity among Christian sects was not chosen accidentally. If we Christians fight over the fine print, how could anyone from another religion even begin to take us seriously. Remember also that Yahweh, God and Allah are just different names for the same entity, only the vestments are different. I have considerable sympathy for your intention but my observation of the world suggests that we should be wary of propaganda and dogma. In my view tolerance (in a socially constructive context) begins with "seeing through the other fellow's eyes". You might ask the questions "why should I be tolerant of other people?" "What is the purpose of my tolerance?" If he's got a gun to your head your immediate aim is to stop him pulling the trigger and after that to get away safely. Any tolerance or religious conversion you expressed had a very short term aim and is unlikely to last longer than it takes for the police to arrive.

Very well said, Serena.

Fridg I think you have a wonderful concept and you are genuinely passionate about it. However, for your first attempt at a documentary you might want to explore a topic on which you can focus more specifically. My first attempt at a "documentary" was a simple (or so it seemed) family history. You'd be amazed how quickly you lose focus of something as intimately familiar as your own family history. Inexperience lead to mistakes in pre-production that had me pulling my hair out in post. I can't imagine tackling your chosen subject right out of the gate. I'm not trying to discourage you. I recognize that you are passionate about your subject and would hate for you to end up frustrated (as I was) instead of satisfied. In short, I'd get my feet wet with something fairly simple and save your dream project for a time when you can truly do it justice.

Here are some ideas for some smaller projects. You may even find some $ support for them as well:

Create a safety video for a local elementary school covering the dangers of talking to strangers, improper crossing of crosswalks, etc..

Go to your nearest state park, wildlife preserve or fish hatchery (if you have one) and propose an educational video that can be continuously looped at the visitors center. (I'm currently pitching one to Fish & Game.)

Senior and assisted living centers might also benefit from informational videos.

Any one of these projects will help build important researching, narrative and editing skills necessary for a great documentary.

Good luck!

Goshep - I agree, and have decided that this is not how I will get my feet into the game of docs. I also know that it is not something that I'm going to entirely ignore.

Serena - I agree with the fact that this is a dangerous topic and I feel it should end here, so I ask that this thread now be allowed to die.

I agree that docs should be unbiased (as much as they can be) unless you're going for that biased opinion doc. like some that have been released in recent years.

I will see where this goes, and work on something else for now.

Have a good one folks, and thank you very much for the input.

BTW, IMHO - Love in this angle, was nothing to do with that highschool "love" (also known as a crush) that we've probably all felt, or Sex, but with the unstoppable love, the love that is more a choice than a feeling, that Love that people have for one another that causes them to take a bullet for someone else, that says, I don't know you, but let me take care of you and help you out in a time of need. The love that says, I Hate what you do, but Love you inspite of those things, and if you ever need help, come to me, and I'll be there waiting. Love with no prerequisits, no requirements, nothing. The love that noone deserves, and that everyone should have. Love doesn't mean letting things go unpunished, Love means "this hurts me, more than it hurts you." (so to speak) It is, in my mind, not easy, never painless, and always always worth it, even if you don't think/know so at the time.

But that's just one mans opinion, and this is neither the time, nor the place, for such an Off Topic discussion.

Love,
Dave
(sorry couldn't resist :P)