Need some clarification on something spot said (Terminology)

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/15/2004, 8:40 PM

" This is some of what Cineform does, but also remember that DV is ITU 601 while HDV is ITU 709, so the range is greater, and actually maps better to YV12. Cineform is a 4:2:2 compression format with 2GOP.
BTW, for those comparing/using Huffyuv or VDub to do the M2T conversions, remember that those are 601 tools, not 709 capable tools."

What's ITU "601 ITU" and "709 ITU" and YV12 still still learning.

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/15/2004, 9:01 PM

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/YUVFormats.asp

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/avisynth2/docs/Attic/faq.html?rev=1.11

http://scanline.ca/ycbcr/

http://www.dsclabs.com/the_pro's_corner.htm

http://www.pixelmonger.com/art_hist.html

http://broadcastengineering.com/aps/acquisition/broadcasting_hdtv_format/

http://www.srgb.com/srgb709compatibility.html

Are all my "favorites" bookmarks, but there is LOADS of information on ITU BT.709 out there. Just search for YV12 or ITU 709. You'll be surprised how much info there is.
601 is the SD standard, whereas ITU BT.709 is the HD standard.
Computers use RGB due to graphics issues, but cameras are YUV. Various mappings apply to all standards, it's complex at some levels, but very simple at others. Short answer though, is if you view HD in a 601 setting, then reds get real bright and greens get real dark, and colors are improperly decoded and mapped. This is why some folks just ain't seeing what HDV really is all about.

Grazie wrote on 12/15/2004, 9:14 PM

Smashing post Spot! . ..

.. . but had to giggle though . . "This is why some folks just ain't seeing what HDV really is all about. " HAH! Could be the quote for the whole of 2005 ? . .. "Don't Yah just Luuuve the smell of Irony in the Mornin' ? "

Grazie

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/15/2004, 10:14 PM

Thanks, Spot (and all you other guys that help us out).

I realize I've been pretty needy lately, "Need some clarification," "Want some clarification", etc... however I realized just a couple of days ago that I have been learning quite a lot in the last few weeks/months as I am doing research for making purchases.

BTW, any suggestions for my buy list? (particularly curious what Spot, Grazie, and Farss have to say). (not that anyone else's opinions aren't welcome or valid, I just have seen something that I like in these guys' posts)

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/15/2004, 10:23 PM

[shameful plug]I'd like to recommend our new HDV, What You NEED to Know" book...you might find it interesting reading.
There're lots of other good books out there, but other than this one we've just come out with, and Steve Mullen's JVC book from last year, there isn't much on HDV just yet. You might try Ben Waggoners book on codecs, but he doesn't go too deep on the whole ITU 601/ITU 709 thing.
[end shameful plug]

Grazie wrote on 12/15/2004, 10:30 PM

You can count me out of the HD thang at the moment . . I need some real BIG projects to UG to HD format. By the time I get to it there will be something like, UltraHD or XHD or MegaHD. In the meantime I can only gaze from afar . . . .

Best regards,

Grazie

Rednroll wrote on 12/16/2004, 7:18 AM

"What's ITU "601 ITU" and "709 ITU" and YV12"

"601 is the SD standard, whereas ITU BT.709 is the HD standard."

"Computers use RGB due to graphics issues, but cameras are YUV. Various mappings apply to all standards, it's complex at some levels, but very simple at others. Short answer though, is if you view HD in a 601 setting, then reds get real bright and greens get real dark, and colors are improperly decoded and mapped. "

I think Dave H. sometimes wonders why I haven't dug into the video side more of Vegas. It's crap like this that makes my head spin and deters me away. Where with audio on the most part, what you hear is what you get. Video on the other hand is always a craps shoot, where when I render to the final media format, I'm lucky if I ever get what I saw on my PC monitor and I know it's on most part just my misunderstanding of all these different formats, color scheme standards, rendering codecs. Yuck!!! Sometimes I feel all these "standards", where written by artsy/fartsy engineers that have no concept of what a "standard" is.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/16/2004, 1:54 PM

Rednroll, I'm a little confused, My name is Dave H. were you talking about me, or someone else?

Thanks

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 12/16/2004, 2:02 PM

Well Spot I took your shameless plug and orderd the book, I look forward to getting soon.

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/16/2004, 2:14 PM

He's referring to Dr. Dropout.
Red, long before there was such a thing as sampling audio, there was a committee that got together to determine colorspace and how it all works, well before the days of even computers as we know them. As time has gone on and changed, so then has television and the standards associated with them. HDTV's standards and colorspaces began to be determined in Japan before most Vegas users were born in the mid 60's. Now, it's finally a reality.
It's not that hard, it's just that right now, we're in a time of major transition, no different than when we quit using 1630's for masters and when 24/96 became possible.

Rednroll wrote on 12/16/2004, 4:00 PM

Thanks Spot, standing by for now. Once I dig in a little deeper I'll be looking for some of your expert advice to slow the room down from spinning so much.