"Or you use AVCHD within a 5.1 project - what uses the AVC Encoder and delivers superior video quality."

Curious.. 2 questions..
1) will this write a file which will play on any BD player? Considering the 5.1 is one feature we cant inject into m2t to dvd5 using m2t method, An AVCHD option would be a better alternative for the NOW cients who want 5.1

2) Does the encode (either BluePrint or AVCHD) SCALE up to 1920x1080 as oposed to using the native 144x1080 HDV res?

anyone care to comment?

Sure, I can comment that.

The blu ray export from the timeline will generate a blu ray compatible structure. In the Sony knowledge base, you find following information:

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Blu-ray burning in Vegas Pro 8 software

Question
Vegas Pro 8 software can burn Blu-ray discs. What are the details related to that feature?

Answer
Vegas Pro 8.0 burns Blu-ray BDMV format to BD-R and BD-RE recordable media.



For the video, you can use MPEG-2 or AVC encoding.

The MPEG-2 video templates have an average bitrate of 25Mbps.
The AVC video templates have an average bitrate of 15Mbps.


For the audio, we use Dolby Digital 2.0 or 5.1 (AC-3) encoding at 192Kbps or 448 Kbps respectively.

On a 25G single-layer BD recordable disc this gives you approximately 3h42m for AVC or 2h15m for MPEG-2.

You can create your own templates if you need to adjust the bitrates.

Also, you can use standard definition MPEG-2 formats for very large amounts of video on a Blu-ray disc.

Vegas Pro 8.0 does not currently have the ability to burn BDMV to DVD recordable media.


We have specifically tested on the following burners*:

- Pioneer 101 A
- Plextor PX-B900A
- Sony BWU-100A
- Lite-On LH-2B1S
- Philips SPD7000BD
- Matsushita BD-MLT SW-5582 (within a VAIO VGC-RC310G desktop)
- Matsushita BD-MLT UJ-220S (within a VAIO VGN-FZ190 laptop)

We have specifically tested on the following players*:

- Sony PS3
- Sony BDP-S1

- Samsung BD-P1000
- Samsung BD-P1200

*Other burners and players on the market today may work as well.
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For testing the new feature, I have generated some blu ray structures, using the settings:

- Mainconcept mpeg2 Bluray 1440_1080 60i and AC3 5.1
- Mainconcept mpeg2 Bluray 1440_1080 50i and AC3 5.1
- Mainconcept mpeg2 Bluray 1440_1080 24p and AC3 5.1
- AVC BluRay 1440_1080 PAL and AC3 5.1

The export function generates a ISO-file on your harddisk, if you have no blu ray burner in your system. However, if the files are smaller then 4.3 GB, you can use any burning tool - Nero - to burn the material to a SD-DVD to AVCHD-DVDs (or mpeg2-HD-DVDs). For the mpeg2 structure, I had to reduce the data rate to be able to playback the files on BD-Player, for the AVC structure it worked fine with the standard settings.

Tests were performed on
Panasonic DMP-B10 EGS: ok
Pioneer BDP-LX70: ok
Samsung BDP 1000: no playback


However, the question, if a specific player is able to playback such disks or not, will depend on the firmware. For examle, the Sony BDP-S1E has not been able to play BD-R and BD-RE in the BDMV format - with the old firmware 1.6. With firmware 2.0, you have a compatibility with the newly released BD-R/RE format (BDMV).

Right, you cannot create a m2t file with an 5.1 audio stream. But you can create a mpeg2-HD files with 5.1, and also an AVCHD 5.1 file.

However, if you generate an AVCHD-DVD, so a blu ray structure on a standard DVD, then the AVC encoder is the better choice, since the modern H.264 codec allows a higher compression rate with still superion video quality.

Blu ray allows both HDV2 resolution 1440x1080, but also full HD resolution 1920x1080. Using the templates within Vegas Pro 8, you can stick to 1440x1080, if you use material from your HDV2 or AVCHD camcorder. It is possible, but not required to scale up to full HD.

Thank you for that tidbit wolfgang.. maybe Sony should ask you for permission to publish that info in the manual.

As for the resolution, as a standard, HDV res is not actually officially suported (according to the BD consortium), in turn, to publish a program for BD pressing, one must provide the work in 1920x1080 (or other supported HD variants.

Im glad to hear however that 1440x1080 doesnt need scaling, but im sad to hear that DVD5 is not supported off teh timeline..

Thanks again Wolfgang that info will be very helpful for alot of poeple

Well, I am no expert about the BD specificatin yet, but as far as I read the

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

I see there a table where they write: "Video resolution (maximum) 1920×1080 24p or 50/60i HDT". Means to me, that the resolution can be smaller then the 1920x1080. But sure, that is no official document, only a wikipedia publication. But it worked out fine so far.

Off course, Sony can publish that info - frankly spoken, the idea to reduce the data rate for the mpeg2-HD-DVDs came from the Vegas development team, when I performed the tests and saw some issues with the players.

if u check out the BD site, theres a full tech spec re- res and frame rate.. i cant find the link, but there was a proper chart showing whats acceptable and waht isnt (as a standard)

"However, the question, if a specific player is able to playback such disks or not, will depend on the firmware. For examle, the Sony BDP-S1E has not been able to play BD-R and BD-RE in the BDMV format - with the old firmware 1.6. With firmware 2.0, you have a compatibility with the newly released BD-R/RE format (BDMV). "
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Not entirely true. If you format a DVD-R like a Blu-ray disc, it will work on some Blu-ray players but not others, but if you format the DVD-R with as an AVCHD camcorder disc, it will playback HD pretty consistently accross Bluray players. This is what I would like to be able to do. I mean, this feature is more for rough cuts than finished products. Burning rough cuts to $20 BD-R is a little pricey for me.

You mean that side here?

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Section-13470/Section-13628/Index.html


Frankly spoken, from the limited number of players we have tested, it seems to be true that AVCHD-DVDs show a higher compatibility up to now, then BD-R does. People complain a lot at the moement, that their expensive Blu Ray Player are not able to playback BD-R.

"Off course, Sony can publish that info - frankly spoken, the idea to reduce the data rate for the mpeg2-HD-DVDs came from the Vegas development team, when I performed the tests and saw some issues with the players."
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Yes... this is true. I have in the past reduced the data rate when creating HD DVD's on dvd media. I have so far reduced the rate from 25000 to 19000, with no serious visual loss.... and this allows 50 minutes of HDV on a double layer dvd (with DD5.1 sound)

The BDPS-300 for instance will not play BD-R but will play AVCHD just fine, albiet with a little delay between clips. The PS3 plays AVCHD discs perfectly. These two players are by far the most popular Blu-ray players right now. AVCHD compression and DVD-R media are a good match bitrate-wise. A half hour on a single layer and a full hour on a dual layer DVD-R is not bad.

"Frankly spoken, from the limited number of players we have tested, it seems to be true that AVCHD-DVDs show a higher compatibility up to now, then BD-R does. People complain a lot at the moment, that their expensive Blu Ray Player are not able to playback BD-R."
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There is one piece of important information missing in Sony's knowledge base regarding "Blu-ray burning in Vegas Pro 8 software".

There exist two versions of BD-R and BD-RE disk. The BD-R version 1 and BD-RE version 2 are only intended for the BDAV format (used by AVCHD) and, BD-R version 2 and BD-RE version 3 are intended for the both the BDAV format and the BDMV format (that Vegas Pro 8 produces).

The problem is that the second type (BR-R v2 and BR-RE v3) to my knowledge are not available for sale today. However, the Blu-ray players are allowed to playback BDMV on the first type of discs (BR-R v2 and BR-RE v2) during a grace period. But not all players are enabled to allow for this temporary solution.

I don't remember the exact date, but this grace period is about to end any time now. So hopefully the new type of discs will come out now...

Note that this means that future Blu-ray players will not be able to playback BDMV contents recorded to the first type of discs.

This information was collected from insiders on www.blu-ray.com

Note that this means that future Blu-ray players will not be able to playback BDMV contents recorded to the first type of discs.

I am not so sure about this. I believe it means that they don't have to playback BDMV content. There is a big difference in the two.

j razz