I intend to get the HD-P2 to replace my trusty Tascam DA-P1 portable DAT recorder. I've had the DA-P1 for ten years and it has been absolutely bullet-proof. I love the sound of the mic preamps and the analog limiter has been a real life-saver on many occasions. I expect the HD-P2 to be every bit as amazing as my DA-P1 was ten years ago. This thing IS the ultimate, reasonably priced field recorder.

John

Please answer an audio-acquisition newby question:

How is this device worth twice the price of a Marantz PMD660?

Mind you, I'm NOT saying the Marantz is better, I just wonder if the timecode feature alone is worth paying 2X as much. Or are there other benefits I'm overlooking?

Much appreciated---
John

I doubt it, but you can drive Vegas with the T/C from the unit, witha SMPTE/MIDI converter box. I do this nearly daily, driving Vegas with DA-88's, and driving DA-88's from Vegas. (Bi directional control)
but you'd need to have the offsets in Vegas, not the other way around. And...it would be project T/C, not file T/C.

OK,
gotta ya. But I CAN make project TC match source T/C, I can set timeline TC to have whatever offset I need. So if video source TC starts at say 13:00:00:00 I can put that on a T/L at 13:00:00:00. Vegas will then ouput midi TC starting at 13:00:00:00, feed that thru a midi TC to LTC or VTC converter and that into the P2.
The P2 will chase that T/C. Only downside is the audio has to go back through analogue land and the transfer will be real time. This is how it used to be done with 1/4" tape.
Bob.

It's a rather personal thing. You need to evaluate any purchase on the basis of your needs, much the same as buying a car.
Many of these can be things that the specs don't tell you. The mindset of the designers can play a big part or they might mean nothing given your needs.
If you're recording from high output mics close to the sound sources in a controlled environment then almost anything will work. If on the other hand you're recording bird calls in sub zero temperatures or tropical jungles then many factors come into play, build quality and ergonomics will be very high on your list of priorities.

I always turn the question on its head and ask OK, if thing A is $500 more than thing B, what did they spend my $500 on.

The Tascam is fairly new so I certainly can't say how good it is and my ability to really test this kind of gear to it's limits is pretty restricted anyway. However Tascam have a pretty good reputation, I doub't they risk that by selling a lemon. At the same time they're certainly not the very top shelf in location audio kit, for that look to Sound Devices and a serious price hike.

To try to answer your question without specifics:

Signal to noise.
Ergonomics.
Battery Life.
Build Quality.

That's in no particular order and I'm not saying the Marantz is better or worse than the Tascam in any of those areas and even if it is or isn't you've got to weigh the value of that against your needs.

From the reviews I recall reading about the Marantz I recall it's pretty cheaply built, not too solid a feel to it. If you look after your gear not really an issue. If you give it to other to use that might be a very big issue. The mic preamps do seem to have a reputation for being noisy, that probably means nothing if you're always recording at line levels from a desk.

Bob.

Now I am confused Bob - you asked about clip TC and not project TC or did I misread somehting?

Yes in a sense you could put each clip onto a timeline and enter in project timecode to match the clip timecode but this is rather a long way around the problem isn't it? I mean unless you just capture the entire tape that is.

Let me draw an image here, something I really wish Vegas could do - on the Amiga I was using Studio 16. Now you could bring in audio and manually enter in TC. You can do this in part in Vegas. But you could start a project, say starting at 13:00:00:00 and than drop the media into the project and the media would go to the spot - in short it would auto sync. Vegas does not do that. Now on output that would also trigger based on either the internal TC clock or incoming (external)...Vegas sort of does that but you need a MIDI > SMPTE / SMPTE > MIDI convertor. To paint a bit clearer image here, for post audio work this was great because you could get in a locked reel and spot, hit the keyboard shortcuts and create a blank list/project and just drop effects into the blank entries. For syncing dailies it was awesome - you frame by framed the video finding the slate clap. On audio you listened. On the audio track you manually entered the TC of the slate clap on video at the audio "in point" of it and just tossed it onto the project. You didn't have to worry much about sliding things around or lossing sync like you do with Vegas.

I bring this up because Studio 16 would allow you to do a clip to clip export with TC and having any external source with TC would have been fine...so you could very easy take audio with TC and have it lock up. So to me having this unit as a recorder on set would be awesome provided I could take in the video *and* the audio and have Vegas retain the TC info for both and than take the video, drop it onto the timeline, than just drop the audio on and have it sync up automaticly. Using Studio 16 on an Amiga 2000 this would work with no problems at all. Been wishing Vegas could adopt the same workflow on that side.

EDIT - Spelling fixes

Well... this Tascam thingy is 24-bit, the PMD-660 is, I recall, 16-bit only. Actually, I think a better comparsion would be between the Tascam H2 and the Marantz PMD-671.

Marantz PMD 671 has USB 2.0 and rechargeable batteries.
Tascam H2 has Firewire, AA batteries and timecode.

Other than that, they look like twin sisters! Any other differences I missed?

Edit: Boy, there are suddenly lots of options in this category/price-range! Fostex looks like they have (or wil have) a timecode option, too. Take a gander at this link for some of the competitors:

http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/index.html

Well I could have avoided asking a lot of questions if I'd practised what I preached, so I'll preach it again to remind myself, BOB RTFM!

Now that I've got that out of the way all I can say is Tascam have got to be serious Vegas users, ha, they've managed to take into account all the problems we've been talking about.

So you want to feed it project not source TC, no problem just tell it the offset and it'll take care of that for you.

But here's the important thing, you really don't need to do the whole TC chase dance on ingest. If you feed it vision from the camera it'll lock it's clocks to that, neato. And it'll handle every type of time code that I can think of including 24p in 60i. If it looses the video feed, if so told it'll just free run from last value and resync when it gets vision back. So you're guaranteed that when you drop your audio file into Vegas (or any NLE) that once you get the first frame in sync it'll be in sync even if your camera has a slight attack of the wobblies with its clocks. Seeing as how it writes BWF getting the first frame in sync shouldn't be a problem either.

Bob.

Will the timecode feature work with DV and HDV signals? I'm pretty sure I remember that DV at least uses a non-LTC timecode signal. I looked at the Tascam manual online, but it wasn't clear.

This may or may not be of help - at least relative to some DV/HDV signals - for example the new "B" version of the DVX100 that allows for multi-cam syncing I would feel would also allow for syncing of the HD-P2.

From the HD-P2 "Read me" file -

A pull up/down sample rate is always relative to the chosen time code rate. For example, when it is required to chase 30fps LTC but the project will eventually be pulled down to 29.97, a 30 Pull Up setting would be used providing an operating sample rate of the selected sample rate plus 0.1% while chasing 30fps LTC. Later, when chasing 29.97, the sample rate will be normal. The following 0.1% pull up/down rates are supported by the HD-P2:

So my thought is that if you take the master TC from a DVX100B the HD-P2 would lock to it. I have not used the DVX100B so I am not sure how the TC is set up but based on the specs it sounds like it is set up much the same as any standard SMPTE TC unit would be -

The built-in SMPTE time-code generator/reader lets you select, preset and regenerate the Drop Frame/Non-Drop Frame and Free Run/Rec Run modes.

Now on top of this it also has firwire based "synchro lock" function which might also work here. TC aside one could hook up, via the firewire, a DVX100B and the HD-P2 and let the DVX100B control it.

An IEEE 1394-compliant 4-pin DV terminal features a synchro lock function that allows the AG-DVX100B to remotely start and stop an external DV device connected to it via a DV cable.

It would be really slick if firewire on the HD-P2 worked like the "Slave" function in DV Rack software.

Hook up firewire from camera to the HD-P2, and the camera automatically stops and starts when you press the "record" button on the camera. Everything synced by TC, of course.

I may have to rent one and see how it works.

Has anyone worked out the TC and Vegas and HD-P2 problem?
Belker

If I think I know what you're talking about then it's not just a Vegas and P2 problem. it's an all things HDV and all NLE problem.
Shannon was asking much the same about tapes from the Canon XL-H1 recently.

Bob.

Actually I was refering back to your original post where you were speculating on obstacles in the use of the Tascam HD-P2 Timecode and Vegas.

I am about to order this recorder and was attempting to work out the fine points of transfer to Vegas from my dvx-100 and syncing to audio. It is unclear to me, in the online manual, as to which frame rate to set the TC to. I record in 24pA, the camera outputs 29.97 and the timeline is 24pA with 2-3-3-2 pulldown. How would I set the frame rate on the Tascam?

Any Ideas. Does anyone have the HD-P2, a dvx-100 and Vegas?

Belker

Don't have the recorder or the camera although I have looked longingly at the recorder.
Also I don't work in NTSC!
However I'd assume if the recorder is set to 29.97, same as the camera, you'll be right although I'd check that both are NDF or DF, the latter seems to cause grief though, I've read several posts suggesting in general to always use NDF.
Vegas will sync BWF TC to video TC, it will not chase TC however this you don't need, once the HD-P2 and the camera are genlocked their will be no drift as the two clocks are identical, so no need to chase TC.
What could bring you unstuck is if you remove pulldown on capture, I haven't a clue as to what happens to the source TC in that scenario. However even if it gets lost so long as your shots are slated once you sync to the slate you will keep sync, just be carefull of 23.97fps versus 24.00fps issues.

Bob.

It's what happens after pulldown that has me wondering. I think I'll post a new thread regarding that.
Thanks
Belker