Comments

kdm wrote on 3/12/2006, 5:59 PM
Thanks for the link - there is some great info in there.
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 3/12/2006, 6:38 PM
Yep - worth looking through if only for the error protection information.

Dave
Wes C. Attle wrote on 3/13/2006, 8:17 AM
That is a good short educational read. But he forgot to mention all the deforming downsides of Sony's HDV rolling shutter implementation!
Spot|DSE wrote on 3/13/2006, 8:47 AM
He also didn't mention that Panasonic HVX isn't really 4:2:2, he didn't mention that Canon's SDI isn't embedded, he didn't mention that there are issues with every platform at every price, and he didn't mention that Moses had a long beard.
the point is to inform people about how HDV works.
If you've got some demonstration of problems with the cameras, I'm *sure* he'd love to have a technical discussion with you. I'm unaware of any rolling shutter issues with the Z1. With the A1, it's possible of course, but the Z1?
Wes C. Attle wrote on 3/13/2006, 9:22 AM
Point taken. I appreciated Juan's paper for being informative, but it is a bit heavy on the Sony agenda promotion theme. Especially for Sony's formats, aka Blu-ray. The "challenges" section could be expanded in future discourse on the subject. A lot of us have perceptions and misperceptions about the HDV format that can be discussed. I think addressing the subject's limitations/faults and perceptions makes white papers better. But as you say, nothing to do with my rolling shutter whining.

The OT part: I have been on the HC1 since it released. So my comments and slight disappointment with HDV are limited to the low-end. I shot in progressive with my Panasonic GS400 last weekend for the first time in months. I really like the 30p look especially on movement and panning. The deformation/bending on the HC1 from the rolling shutter is an occasional nausea inducing nuisance, but the HDV color and detail quality makes me stick with it over the DV Panasonic anyway. I would really like to see Sony publish a white paper on this "challenge" and what users can do to reduce these rolling shutter problems. :-)
Coursedesign wrote on 3/13/2006, 9:23 AM
He also didn't mention that Panasonic HVX isn't really 4:2:2, he didn't mention that Canon's SDI isn't embedded,

Did Panny ever admit the number of CCD pixels? If it's true that they're using a 960x720 CCD, then of course sampling every other pixel horizontally and vertically, for 480x360, doesn't do that much for a final 1920x1080 image.

Or could they be [not] saying it's 4:2:2 only for 720P?

Canon's SDI not embedding audio is odd in a way, perhaps they looked at studio cameras and found those don't have it. Sure would have been convenient though.
apit34356 wrote on 3/13/2006, 9:56 AM
Panny bet the farm that 720p was going to be "the market" with euro pushing the 720. Sony caught them by surprise with HDV 1080i Z1 that worked! Panny is busy designing 1080 ccds, but production cost of playing catchup is expense. Panny can not admit the 200 was a design error without taking a huge lost and major PR hit. Panny did not think 1080i/p in the USA would be moving as fast.

OT:The same effect will occur with HD DVD and X360 then the PSP3 and BD hit with Sony winning.
JJKizak wrote on 3/13/2006, 10:04 AM
apit34356:
You are being awfully optimistic with all of the big movie companies applying "puts" and "calls" on BluRay & HD-DVD.

JJK
Spot|DSE wrote on 3/13/2006, 10:24 AM
The horizontal of the Panny is 540.
We have been shooting like madmen with this camera, and while it is very well designed, it is not remotely close to the hype that has surrounded it, which others have found as well.
Try shooting chromakey with it. No matter how well you light, it just can't manage it well in Vegas or Ultra or FCP. We've tried em' all.
My feeling is this...
If you record VHS to HDCAM, is the footage now HDCAM? In other words, just because the resolution of the final product is there doesn't mean the resolution of the input matches the resolution of the output. Effectively, it's missing a chroma sample. Lose the chroma sample and what do you have?
I'll have images and downloadable media up within an hour. Just awaiting a technical question response from Raylight, and then it will go.
apit34356 wrote on 3/13/2006, 11:04 AM
jjk,

to avoid a long analysis, remember, the only thing that save the xbox was the game "HALO". The PSP3 was design for gaming but also being a high powered media center, which the X360 is not. The X360 has been a problem child because of poor engineering, (poor power management, overheating), MS has done a number of software updates and are not done yet.

Too many people think BluRay is not completed yet, the mass market protection issue of "movie media" is really more a "version level" issue than a hardware issue,( more OS is being moved to firmware).
Sony's being overly cautious because of Sony BMG's rootkit bad press. I can not say more, but everyone including the HD DVD crowd has the same problem. Sony does not want to let MS leak a major " bad news" article against BD protection and the BD general product line to hurt Sony, just to hurt PSP3 public image. Sales,..sales..., In the beginng sales PSP3 > clobber BD units the first 6 months, then things get closer PSP3 = BD units, then year 2 PSP3 < BD units with volume of BD blanks approaching "printable DVD volumes". Will people use BD like DVD's, in beginning only a few will really use BD media at home, home market is a slow user market, but a fast high tech buy,(keeping up with jones).